17th C pikes and 18th C pikes

Discussion in 'Modding' started by Ftoomsh, Nov 15, 2019.

  1. Ftoomsh

    Ftoomsh Well-Known Member

    I have only just noticed that 18th C pikes attack faster (more thrusts per unit time) than 17th C pikes. This is even though their weapon delays are equal (at a nominal zero) as is the case for all cold steel. I'm probably the last modder to notice this. Anyone happen to know where these delays are really determined? I'll go looking myself if nobody knows and if I care enough. Not sure if I want to change anything in this area anyway.
  2. Ebel

    Ebel Moderator Staff Member

    If everything else is equal (I have not looked for this), then it could be the animation; from the .aaf files
    The 17th pike takes 14 frames for a full attack cycle, the 18th takes 8 frames.

    I'm not entirely sure this is the cause or the only cause for the different attack rate. I have not dug deep enough for that to be sure of it. I also do not know at this point if you could change this. I remember Gexozoid used to repeat frame numbers for his AC mods to give different or longer fights. In C1.AC, this was a possibility, I'm not sure if the engine here can deal with writing out the frames to play or if it only accept start and end frame. Other possibilities might lie in the .acl files where cycles are defined. So I could see it being possible to double , triple, ... the attack rates. Making it shorter, that I'm not so sure about. Then again, like I'v said, I have not dug into the subject very deep and don't know too much about it.

    Edit: for clarity sakes: the numbers in the .aaf file refer to the start and end frame of the .osm/.oss file to display for a specific named animation which is then further defined in the .acl file.

    I also know that the .aaf file can handle a slightly different structure, for example, where the 'morph' is written it can accept a value/number but I have not experimented with it. My point is, what you see is not necessarily the only way to do things. This engine has a lot of inbuilt functions which are not always used, but possible to use.

    All of this is highly speculative, I could be very wrong about some of the above things. I have not tested any of it.

    Edit 2: When I mentioned 'im not sure about shortening the animation', what I meant by that is: Ofcourse it is possible to do so, by writing for example frame 44 instead of 46, but the problem that could occur then is that, the switching to the next animation, might look very weird or 'stuttery' as 2 frames have gone missing. Idk.

    Edit 3: (lol) Wasn't there another topic about this somewhere here or somewhat closely related to this (attack speed) ? Can't remember.
    Loner and Awar like this.
  3. Ftoomsh

    Ftoomsh Well-Known Member

    From a basic parameter modder's perspective, it's easier to change values in the unit.script to balance or re-balance units. I was looking at the 17th C pike stats and 18th C pike stats that I have in my mod and I thought "the numbers say un-upgraded 17th C pikes should beat un-upgraded 18th C pikes". But when I tested it the 18th C pike(s) won and it was clear that it was delivering pike hits faster. From my perspective, I am not going to mess with graphics or .aaf files. If I wanted to change things, there are simply attack, defense, life-points and other uni-script parameters to play around with.

    Now, if someone could mod a kneeling front rank for muskets and create proper ranked fire and no firing through friendlies, that would be of enormous import for C3 mods.
    Loner likes this.
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