Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by irish437, May 29, 2015.

  1. irish437

    irish437 New Member

    I read that the AI is going to be created directly from the back to war AI. Please look into this as the Back to War AI just created giant blobs of men that would come at you. No formations, not continuity of units. The AI grenadiers also wouldn't use their grenades and they wouldn't attack mines.

    With a little revamping, this could be a solid hit. If the AI is exactly like Back to War, it will absolutely kill the single player experience.
    Ribald likes this.
  2. Masher

    Masher Active Member

    There were many problems with the old a.i, not being able to use walls, or on very hard it would build up huge armies and sometimes just stop in the middle of map and never attack.

    That could have been a path finding issue though as i remember huge a.i grenadier squads just stopping next to mountains.
  3. irish437

    irish437 New Member

    There was a mod that made it playable to some degree by putting the original Cossacks AI back into the files and tweaking, but the way they released Back to War was basically unplayable. I was so disappointed as a Cossacks fan who supported the company and purchased everything they put out. Back then single player was a lot more prevalent as internet connections were hit or miss and seeing the AI just create giant blobs. They can charge me whatever they want for the game and I'll pay it if the single player AI actually works but if its the same as Back to War, the game will be essentially worthless to me unless I go the multiplayer route.
  4. BlackKorp

    BlackKorp Member

    If i understand it corret and the A.i. is the same as in Cossacks Back to War it would be a hit in the face for me, to be honest. Cossacks was awesome but just puting the same A.i. from 13 years ago in this game would make it horrible. Don´t get it wrong here but even as a great Fan i have to say that there where annoying issues.

    As spoken in the interview, you make Cossacks 3 80-95% the same, please don´t do 95%, 80% sounds better! ;)
    irish437 likes this.
  5. Cossack

    Cossack Administrator Staff Member

    Hi there,

    Well, information, that AI will be THE SAME as in Cossacks BtW is misunderstaning from gamewatcher interview ( ). True info, is that AI is based on how AI worked in C1. Of course we are going to make it smarter and better. And we will continue to work/upgrade/tune AI even after game release.
    condor_fly, Hippie, Barth and 7 others like this.
  6. BlackKorp

    BlackKorp Member

    Hey there,

    im thankful for your fast feedback to the community and me. A pleasure to read that you will take a lot of care to it, was just a bit concerned as i read it first. So im in hope you don´t take my lines i wrote first negativ :p
  7. Nowy

    Nowy Well-Known Member

    Hopefully you can make AI smarter and much better. Especially for warfare and battle tactics.
    AI sould organize proper army order of battle, deploy properly units, use proper tactic, react on players actions.
    Blobbing troops and almost constant mass attack were very bad AI affairs in C1.
  8. CyberInsaneo

    CyberInsaneo Member

    Aye, the terrible AI in C1 killed the SP experience for me. As someone who mainly plays SP I hope that no expense is spared on making the AI the best it can possibly be.
  9. Nowy

    Nowy Well-Known Member

    I got some suggestions to C3 game AI.

    AI should:
    1. Create army with varaiable units types including Generals and use them orderly
    2. Predict specialized roles and suitable positions for cavalry, infantry and artillery
    3. Move army in organized manner with scouts, vanguard, main force and rearguard
    4. Move carefully artillery and cavalry squads, they can not blindly go to enemy position
    5. Deploy army orderly in formations and positions adequate to tactical situations
    6. Infantry form main battle line, light cavalry secure flanks and heavy cavalry in reserve
    7. Deploy cannons in front of own army or on flanks, or in gaps between own squads
    8. Manoevre orderly, never stack squads at the same place, avoid blobbing units
    9. Send cavalry orderly in combats for charges, include cavalry counter charges
    10. Do not charge across friendly squads, this could disorder squads and inflice loses.
  10. Masher

    Masher Active Member

    Do you think the a.i will be able to build walls this time around?

    Was there a specific reason that made it impossible for a.i to build walls in the older Cossack games?
  11. Nowy

    Nowy Well-Known Member

    AI should move and deploy own Army orderely. Squads should manoeuvre in organized manner.
    These could looks as fallows.

    Movement Order

    1. Scouting Light Cavalry
    2. Vanguard : Skirmishers, Sappers, Infantry, Light Cavalry, Light Artillery and General with Adjutants
    3. Main force: Infantry, Dragoons, Heavy Cavalry, Artillery, Supreme Commander, Generals, Adjutants and Trains
    4. Rearguard: Infantry, Light Cavalry and Light Artillery
    5. Reinforcements, if will necessary, send in groups

    Tactical Order

    Artillery guns move in columns and on battlefields create few 1 rank lines squads
    Cannons deploy in front of own army or in flanks, or between infantry and cavalry squads
    Howitzers deploy close to deployed cannons or behind other friendly squads
    Mortars keep in reserve and use only against enemy besieged buildings
    Horse drawn limbers, if they are available, deploy 50 paces behind artillery guns

    Cavalry move in column, combats in column, 2 or 3 rank line, or echelon formations
    Light Cavalry screen front of own army, secure flanks or deploy in rear to support other units
    Cossacks, Mamelukes, Sipahis, Tatars and other national irregular cavalry support regular units
    Dragoons support infantry or cavalry, hold key positions on army flanks or rears
    Heavy Cavalry deploy in reserve, use only for decisive charges or counter charges
    Mercenary or Foreign Cavalry support regular units on adequate positions
    Guard Cavalry, if will available, deploy in reserve, use only for decisive combats

    Infantry for fire combats create 2 or 3 rank lines, square to move, hollow square against cavalry
    Line Infantry: Musketeers, Fusiliers or Pikes create main battle line in adequate formations
    Light Infantry: Chasseurs, Grenz, Highlanders etc. secure flanks or hold key positions, hills, forests etc.
    Grenadiers hold key positions or deploy in reserve, use for decisive attacks or cover retreat
    Jegers, Riflemen, Voltigeur create skirmish chain line in front of army or secure flanks
    Mercenary or Foreign Infantry deploy in support to regular units on adequate positions
    Irregular Infantry: Landwehr, National Guard deploy in reserve to support regular units
    Guard Infantry, if will available, deploy in reserve, use only for decisive combats

    Sappers, if are available, can clean obstacles, build or destroy bridges, roads, field works or fortifications
    Sappers on battlefields deploy in 2 rank line small company in reserve ready to actions

    Various horse drawn train vehicles, if will available, move behind army main force
    On battlefields train vehicles stay in far reserve in the rear or around military camps
    Artillery ammunition caissons deploy 150 paces behind horse drawn artillery limbers
    Bridging train pontoons and tools carriers deploy in line in the rear
    Supply wagons deploy in line in the rear or around military camps

    General Commanders
    Generals with Adjutants, if will available, they move with subordinate units
    Supreme Commander, Generals and their Adjutants deploy behind subordinate units
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2015
  12. Nowy

    Nowy Well-Known Member

    I wonder what they really can make for smarter and better AI in C3 game.
  13. Privateer

    Privateer Active Member

    Seeing the A.I building competent walls, making diverse armies (not just merc grenadiers and archers ;) ), and not churning out mobs of mortars would signify AI improvement for me :)
    Masher likes this.
  14. Masher

    Masher Active Member

    Not to mention to make more use of ship of the lines and such, instead of just building Galleys and Frigates all the time.
  15. Nowy

    Nowy Well-Known Member

    I wrote these earlier, AI should ordelry create, move and deploy their squads in well organized army or navy.
    Then AI will not create stupid cavalry and infantry blobs supported with crazy mix sorties of archers and grenadiers.
    Mortars in C1 was clear example how poorly were balanced and lead units there.

    Ships combats were spoiled in C1 game. I agree that AI should build more battle ships and ships of the line instead spaming fishing boats, galleys and frigates.

    Greater improvements in naval combats and ships types are necessary in C 3 game.
    Bigger ships should be much cheaper and stronger, then more battleships and ships of the line we will see in gameplay.

    Smaller ships played important, but supportive roles. Nevertheless more ships types would be fine in the game.
    I alredy gave proposition according ships in other thread.
    Masher likes this.
  16. Snuffy

    Snuffy Active Member

    I wrote this for AI earlier. I would like to see formations of units formed by rank. Lt. being the lowest, he collects the men. Captains being second they collect Lt.s and the men that they have assembled. Colonels, collect captains. Brigadier Generals collect Colonels. Major Generals collect Brigadiers. and Full Generals collect Major Generals. In order for the Lt. to assemble he'll need a standard bearer and a drummer, and he can collect upwards of 50 men, in 10 man increments. Captains can collect up to 10 Lt.s and their men. Colonels can collect up to 10 Captains and downward. Brigadiers can collect as many as 4 Colonels and their troops. Major Generals can collect up to 3 Brigadiers, and Full Generals can collect as many Major Generals as he wants. So basically the formation is Lts command platoons, captains command companies, colonels command regiments, brigadiers command brigades, major generals command divisions, full generals command corps or armies.

    You could stick a Lt. General in there too, and have him command corps, leaving the full generals to command armies.

    When the troops assemble in formation, the leaders line up behind their respective lines.

    Just pulling from the top of my head.
  17. Nowy

    Nowy Well-Known Member

    Hmm, Snuffy cast too complex organization. I propose some simplifications in that matter.

    AI could create basic tactical squads which include only few levels:
    Infantry: 12 men company, 72 men battalion and 120 or 144 men regiment
    Infantry battalion and regiment should include officer, flag bearer and drummer.
    Cavalry: 15 or 20 men squadron, 45 or 60 men regiment, the latter include cavalry officer, flag bearer and trumpeter
    Irregular cavalry: 10 men squadron, 40 men regiment, the latter include cavalry officer and flag bearer
    Artillery: 3 cannons, howitzer and 4 limbers create artillery battery, while 2 artillery guns could create artillery section
    Special squads: 12 men skirmisher company, 12 men sappers company and 12 men militia company
    Artillery train company = horse drawn 2 ammunition caissons, each one with 2 drivers on left side horseback
    Engineer train comapny = horse drawn 2 pontoon and tools carriages which allow build bridges
    Supply train company = horse drawn 2 supply wagons, each one with 2 drivers on wagons

    General Commanders: in five ranks for Brigade, Division, Army Corps, Army and Supreme Commander.
    Each General Commander in accomany with 1 to 5 Adjutants.

    Generals can take command over squads groups or chiefs of special branches as like:
    - Field Commanders for certain squads groups or
    - Chief of Staff, Chieff of Artillery, Chief of Enginners, Chief of Cavalry, Guard Infantry or Cavalry Commander etc.

    I believe this is simpler organization, easier implement into the game.
  18. Field Marshall

    Field Marshall Active Member

    One problem with many strategy game's AI is the exploring. They don't explore their enemies much or respond to the vision of the enemy units that they actually have. Also, often time they are not geared towards destroying strategically significant units or buildings but rather destroying anything on their way.
  19. Nowy

    Nowy Well-Known Member

    I believe that GSC make AI smarter and better, becouse C1 AI was very incompetent in historical warfare terms.
    Sending constantly poorly organized troops to attacks on strongly defended positions is not good strategy.

    Developers should include for AI better army organization, correct deployment, proper manoeuvres, well combats and smart reaction on enemies actions.
  20. Privateer

    Privateer Active Member

    Yeah, I agree. It would be great if the AI would send out a small group or two of infantry/light horse to scout out ahead.
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