Been Away a Long Time

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by Ftoomsh, Oct 29, 2019.

?

Do you want to see a new version of OCMOD3?

  1. Yes.

    5 vote(s)
    100.0%
  2. No, not interested.

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. Ftoomsh

    Ftoomsh Well-Known Member

    I've been away from C3 for a long time. How is it running these days? General impressions or specific comments please! I wonder, should I come back to modding and re-create a new version of the old OCMOD3? Would there be any interest? Is the game engine good enough now to drive big battles? Any new mod would take a while. It would not come out until after New Year at earliest.
     
    Loner likes this.
  2. Foeurdr

    Foeurdr Moderator Staff Member

    Hello @Ftoomsh glad to see you again !

    Since the last time you were there, well there hasn't been much change on Cossacks 3, the game didn't get a patch since June 2018. I have hardly seen GSC staff on the forum since then, they are still active on social medias such as FB or VK, they even have a Discord now (mainly for the upcoming Stalker 2), but they mostly post about games sales or give away.
    Well there is still games held on multiplayer every day and you will still see Coswar hosting his games :)

    While there hasn't been news from GSC, There is many interesting projects from the community which are worth to look at :
    • You also know of @Awar and @Demoul State vs Country mod which they still update they even made submod for it ! Well I haven't been translating the patch note lately so you will have to go on the russian topic to see the last changes but they made many interesting gameplay changes, formation with standard bearer, general that oversee your army, special officer for some mercenary or guard units, a workaround to make cannon crew, warship that can embark soldier and the list is probably still long and they made it so that the AI work with those changes.
      One of the submod is called Rise of America, like the name imply it add America to the game and also a fifth age, golden age. At the same time they also made so that the New Terrain Mod from @Ebel could work with State vs Country. Recently they also made another submod that try to make the units and building size more realistic, a bit like what tried @Francesco_Cavalli, but instead of making the building bigger they made the units smaller, it also imply gameplay change.​
    • On the Steam Workshop you also have some graphical change from StoleMyCoconut and another user called Trapper is trying to make a historical mod

    If you need help to test something in OCMOD3 you can ask me to play some game, I don't understand much to modding but I can still play a game :D
     
    Johny and Loner like this.
  3. Loner

    Loner Active Member

    Good to see you back Ftoomsh.:D
     
  4. Ebel

    Ebel Moderator Staff Member

    Hi Ftoomsh, welcome back.

    In the 20 years I've been making mods and maps for various games, I've never cared about others opinions whether I should or shouldn't make a mod or map. If you want to make a mod, you should do so because you want it. Because you feel like this or that needs to be in this way or that way, or just because you feel like doing so and enjoy seeing the fruits of your labour come together. And if it just so happens, that what you made, makes sense and works out well, then you can think about sharing it with others.

    I've made so many maps and mods in all those years but I only ever shared one publicly. Do it because you enjoy doing it. Ignore everyone else. Life is too short.
     
    Demoul, Daddio and Loner like this.
  5. Ftoomsh

    Ftoomsh Well-Known Member

    Thanks to all for your replies.

    Foeurdr, It will be a while before I am ready for game testing but when I am will let you know.
    Loner, Thanks. Sometimes a rest revitalizes us.
    Ebel, Good attitude, but it's always nice to get a sub-group playing the mod. If I could pay a coding elf peanuts to make my mod I would. I mod to play the re-balanced game. :)
     
    Loner likes this.
  6. Johny

    Johny Member

    Nice to have you back.

    Even if I'm not doing activley anything for the game (only trying to design a new map and getting into new building options) I'm still watching this forum, so if you will have some problem with installing map, etc. you can write me, I will answer ASAP.
     
    Loner likes this.
  7. Francesco_Cavalli

    Francesco_Cavalli Active Member

    I've put off doing anything until someone works out how to simulate morale - it's the main thing that's missing, in my opinion! If it is added, I think I'll create a submod for State Vs Country using my firing mechanics
     
  8. Ftoomsh

    Ftoomsh Well-Known Member

    Francesco, great to see you are still around. I took a sabbatical from modding when the patches broke my mod one time too many. I'm back to give it another try. Do you happen to know or remember the parameter to adjust to make the musketshot origin point a bit higher? I found it last time but I am struggling to find it again. Lost my notes. If one makes it a smidge higher then the 2nd rankers fire too and even some third rankers as they effectively fire over the heads (the unit boxes) of the units in front. But friendlies in front of the line formation still prevent fire. I was getting these effects last time while using the standard musketshot rather than your PPOINT2 projectile. I felt the problem with the PPOINT2 projectile was that the muskets could not lead a moving target and even mass fire too rarely seemed to hit traversing targets. Ranked fire is necessary for a really good mod in my opinion. It's the only way to get proper linear tactics for muskets.

    Morale is the other major issue of course. I am sure there are several modders good enough to create a morale simulation if they put their minds to it. Unfortunately, I am not one of them or I would build it myself. Perhaps the "change to mercenary" code could be re-purposed with the units with lost morale breaking formation, being set to "do not attack" and auto-ordered back towards the home base area. A timer elapses and they once again become troops which can be given orders.

    A crude and easy way to implement morale would be to have;

    (a) high bonuses for formations
    (b) formations break after 50% casualties
    (c) the player has to be aware of broken formations, select the loose troops and order them to retreat. Otherwise, they will die in droves being much weaker out of formation. The player will need intact formations to screen this retreat otherwise it is a rout of course, especially if cavalry pursues.

    Footnote:

    It occurred to me that a crude and easy way to implement line tactics would be a high shot bonus for three rank formations but a pro rata reduction for column and square formations with deeper ranks. For example, a 6 rank formation gets a total shot strength after bonus of half that of a 3 ranks line formation. If effect, its firepower is halved. This would raise the question: Why would the player ever use columns and squares of muskets again?
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2019
  9. Foeurdr

    Foeurdr Moderator Staff Member

    If I remember well, in OCMod3 you made columns move faster and have more melee attack and the square were benefiting from a huge defensive bonus against all damage especially nice for infantry against a cavalry charge. I think thoose were good bonus, line is focused on firepower, column on movement and square on defense, which is similar to Cossack 2.
     
  10. Ftoomsh

    Ftoomsh Well-Known Member

    Yes, quite a bit can be done with formation attack and defense bonuses. Formation movement bonuses were tricky in C3 but General WVPM found a way to code that. If I revive OCMOD3, it will all be done at a simpler coding level, with minimalist coding changes to get maximum realistic and strategic play. Preventing fire through friendlies is a key component which was not in OCMOD3 previously and which I really need to solve if possible. If one wants realistic tactics then one has to implement realistic physics or a simulation of realistic physics. Tactics flow from physics and morale. It follows that preventing fire through friendlies and simulating morale are key requirements for any realism mod.

    In my current experiments I am running into the same brick walls as last time. I can't get the 2nd and 3rd ranks to fire reliably when there is no firing through friendlies. There is a way to lift the originating point of the shot just above the body boxes of the rank in front but I have lost that code from my last experiments and can't replicate it yet. Even that was a bit of a kludge. IIRC, I got the front rank firing, the 2nd rank mostly firing and the 3rd rank scarcely firing at all. If I lifted the origin height of the shot any more, even a smidge, then ranks 3, 4, 5 and maybe 6 would all be firing again. Oh well, must keep searching my old code and backups and experimenting.

    I have a fixation about preventing firing through friendlies. I hate it in a game when someone sends pikes in to attack frontally to tie up enemy muskets and then uses his muskets behind his pikes to fire through their massed bodies and kill the enemy. It looks so wrong physically and tactically. Ruins the game IMHO.
     
    Loner likes this.
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