C3 change ideas

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by Nowy, Sep 27, 2016.

  1. Nowy

    Nowy Well-Known Member

    C3 flaws

    1. Chaotic buildings, insane megalopolis, ill-faded, bad fortifications.
    2. Disordered, mass killings, badly organized armies, strange units, poor combat effects
    3. Strange buildings and units, strange colors, markers, some weird sounds worse than C1
    4. Old, bad units stats, poor nation balance, strange weapons usability, units behaviors
    5. Bad movement, poor animation, singular units marching faraway and across the map
    6. Overpopulation, crowds of peasants working at cereal plants, forests and stone pits
    7. Badly organized, small armies, strange units sizes, poor formations, insane combats
    8. Mixing units and squads passing other squads, cavalry never trampled anybody
    9. Poor interface, too darkened icons, too darkened menu, worse than C1
    10. Small maps, too darkened landscape, less transparent, worse than C1

    Proposed change ideas

    A. More playable nations

    Nations balanced in six power tiers as fallows.
    1. Maritime and mercantile great powers = Britain, Netherlands
    2. Land and maritime great powers = France, Russia, Spain and Turkey
    3. Land great powers = Austria, Poland and Prussia
    4. Low population great powers = Denmark, Sweden
    5. Insurgent nations = Algeria, Hungary and Ukraine
    6. Minor states = Bavaria Piedmont, Portugal, Saxony, Switzerland and Venice.

    These six power tiers respectively focused on
    1. Great economy progress, mercantile matters, big navy and well trained, but relatively small army
    2. Big population, large armies and navies, numerous units, but limited naval abilities
    3. Well trained army, but limited shipyards and ports
    4. Strong, but small regular army, limited population
    5. Numerous irregular, poor units, weaker buildings
    6. Small armies and navies, limited population

    B. Build order and dwellings

    1. Logical build order, more sensible economy development without insane megalopolis e.g.
    - Town hall automatically build together with 4 houses better represent town centre
    - Town hall with four houses around could not be build to close to another town hall
    - Every next town hall should require next windmill and more diverse crop plants
    - Eventually add manufactures and working inside peasants instead gold mines

    2. More dwellings or housing places in buildings e.g.
    - Town hall build together with 4 houses = 400 dwellings
    - Barracks 17th c. = 200 dwellings
    - Barracks 18th c. = 240 dwellings
    - House close to town hall = 100 dwellings
    - House far from town hall = 20 dwellings

    3. Delimit or erase long stone walls, palings build around too big areas or around too big base. Long walls and singular towers strangely build here and there looks and works very bad.

    4. Add eventually new garrisoned fortification buildings offering some dwellings e.g.
    - blockhouse - 12 dwellings for 12 musketeers
    - tower – 12 dwellings for up to 12 artillerymen needed for 1, 2, 3 cannons
    - bastion – 30 dwellings for 12 musketeers, 12 artillerymen, drummer, officer
    - castle - 60 dwellings for 36 musketeers, 20 artillerymen, drummer, officer
    - fort - 120 dwellings for 72 musketeers, 15, cavalrymen, 24 artillerymen, drummer, officer
    - fortress - 280 dwellings for 220 musketeers, 15, cavalrymen, 40 artillerymen, 3 drummers, 3 officers and eventually General with Adjutant

    C. Economy

    1. Increase 2 times peasants recruitment time, but every peasant could gather 2 times more resources.
    This tweak prevent peasants overpopulation and crowd work at cereal plants, forests and stone pits.

    2. Add more crop plants, split plant around windmill on 4 different crops, these allow increase agriculture production, exploit crop rotation and much better present agricultural progress e.g.
    - cereal plant for basic food production
    - vegetables, potato plant, add more food diversity, increase agriculture efficiency, allow cash crops
    - flax, hemp for European and cotton plant for Algeria and Turkey, allow produce cloth sails, ropes etc.
    - fallow land after agricultural revolution in 18th c. allow cultivate fodder crops, clover and turnips, then nutrition can fertilize soil and grow crop plant productivity

    3. Add eventually meadows and livestock animals raising on pastures, these can add more food e.g.
    - cattle, horses, pigs, sheep for European
    - camels, horses, goats, sheep for Algeria and Turkey
    Animals could produce food, when they come close to farm around windmill. Cavalry needs horses. Sheep allow virtually produce wool clothes needed in cold seasons.

    4. Add eventually manufactures and peasants working inside houses and manufactures, these could earn gold. British industrial Revolution would be welcome. Then iron works, textile factory and steam power could greatly increase Britisth production and earn lot of gold.

    5. Delimit or erase at all gold mines, there were not so many rich gold mines in Europe at that period. Add eventually manufactuing and bankers offering loan in gold.

    6. Delimit stone pits roles. Agriculture, food production, manufacturing and trading should play main roles in the game.

    D. Army and Navy organization

    1. Improve units stats, similar recruitment times, power, fire ranges, stamina for similar units types etc.

    2. Simplify units squads sizes in three, basic tactical levels for small, medium and big squads e.g.
    - infantry – 12, 36, 72 units, plus automatically add drummer and officer
    - cavalry – 15, 30, 60 units
    - irregular cavalry 10, 20, 40 units for Cossacks, Mamelukes, Polish Raider, Spahis, Tatars
    - artillery – 2 or 3 cannons plus howitzer and horse drawn limbers, if they will available
    - siege artillery - 2 heavy 24 pounder cannons or 4 mortars

    3. Squads create automatically together with drummer and officer in barracks, stables, and depots. This case allow save time needed for create squads and play in better organized order.

    4. Add eventually some new units
    - Supreme Comander, General Commanders and Adjutants in four ranks and Adjutnats
    - artiller crews, horse drawn limbers, ammunition caissons, engineer wagons, supply wagons.
    - sappers with explosive powder kegs, they could build and destroy fortifications
    - skirmisher Jeger, Rifleman, Voltigeur, specialised units in 18th century
    - reserve infantry, National Guard, Landwehr available in 18th century
    - Ukraine melee infantry or armed with axes and short pikes peasants
    - rebel bandits and milita would be welcome too.

    5. Add eventually virtual vessels crews and ships cargo transport e.g. all ships in shipyard can take on board some peasants, musketeers and officers as like ferry can do it now. Ships cargo allow lead overseas transport and trade.

    6. Add eventually ships squads e.g.
    - team – 2 the same type ships or boats
    - convoy – 2 transport vessels and escort team warships, require Commodore commander
    - squadron – 3 the same type of warships, one ship require Vice or Rear Admiral
    - fleet – 9 big warships in 3 ship squadrons, require Vice Admiral, Admiral, Rear Admiral

    7. Add eventually Generals in four ranks commanding different squads groups levels e.g.
    Brigade – 1-4 infantry big squads or 1-2 cavalry big squads, plus General and Adjutant
    Division – 5-8 infantry big squads or 5-8 cavalry big squads, plus General with 2 Adjutants and few
    lower ranks Generals with their Adjutants for 2 Brigades
    Army Corps - 9-16 infantry big squads or 3-4 cavalry medium squads, plus General with 3 Adjutant and
    some lower ranks Generals with their Adjutants for 2 Divisions and 4 Brigades
    Army – more than 16 infantry big squads, 8 cavalry medium squads, plus General with 4 Adjutants and
    some lower ranks Generals with Adjutants for Army Corps, Divisions and Brigades, and Chiefs of
    Staff, of Artillery, of Engineers
    Supreme Commander with 5 Adjutants in accompany with 2 Suite Generals with their Adjutants and
    1 escort cavalry small squad could take command over all available forces.

    8. AI and players should create better organized big armies taking into account well known tactical order
    Vanguard – few cavalry, infantry squads and few cannons, screen own army and seek for enemy positions
    Main Force – infantry, cavalry, artillery, horse drawn train squads, on battlefield hold central position
    Reserve – infantry, cavalry, artillery, eventually elite guard units, stay behind or near main force
    Rearguard – few infantry, cavalry squads and few cannons, secure army rear or cover retreat

    Vanguard and Rearguard forces on battlefields usually hold army left and right wings, defend own army flanks or try outflank enemy army.

    Main Force hold main battle line. Reserves in needs reinforce, and strengthen main force.

    Well organized army or navy is much better than crazy mobs, disorganized, mixed unit clones which can not combat in well organized order.
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2016
  2. Foeurdr

    Foeurdr Moderator Staff Member

    Nowy, why are you creating a new thread again to put the exact same idea you have already put on your old thread ? You can just edit the old one, that would save you so much time !
     
  3. Nowy

    Nowy Well-Known Member

    If you can read more carefully my threads you can find in this new thread ideas which I did not write in this forum. :D

    I repeated few things, few ideas looks similar, but you can notice that specified here ideas include something new.
    More details of course you can still find in my old threads.

    I created this new thread to save you time in searching my old threads. :D

    If you are interested you could discuss or better show your ideas.
     
    Nowу likes this.
  4. Nath33killer

    Nath33killer Member

    I think some of your ideas like new nations are good but when you talk about new dwelling buildings you are dreaming. What I want to see in cossacks is a real sense of strategy ( micro-gestion, choice of units, scouting, etc...). The units are beautiful, the sounds are great, but they are not realistic for the most. Especially for shooters which fire like machineguns. Cossacks 1 was great but now we want something better. We are not sheeps. We are wolfs :) we want to express our talent in the game and see great battles. We can keep a lot of the fantasy from cossacks but we want rules.
     
    Nowy likes this.
  5. Nowy

    Nowy Well-Known Member

    Generally I agree with you, but there are few things worthy to explain.

    I propose add manufacture and few fortification buildings. GSC already had such buildings in C2 game.
    What is more these fortifications are doable even in C3 game, however it require too much time for player to build proper fortification. Therefore I propose include faster to build fortification buildings, developers could do it.

    If moders can change all AC game into fine HEW mod, why GSC can not add few buildings in C3 game?

    Dwellings are not hard to implement, these are simple tweaks, only in places numbers.
    Three or four houses automatically build together with town hall also is not hard thing.
    New crop plants are only new textures, these are easy doable for experienced developers.

    Even adding new units as like Generals, Admirals, Adjutants is not too complex. GSC already showed few screenshots with mounted officers, devs could rename them into Generlas, add them five ranks which allow take command over basic tactical units groups, Brigade, Division, Army Corps and Army.

    Unitys stats, squad sizes, formation shapes, recruitment times, movement speed, fire ranges are easy to change.
    I do it myself in C2 game, that was like piece of cake.

    Developers which know much better C3 game and proper files could do it even faster.

    These simple tweaks improve units and nation balance and make game more interesting to play.

    P.S.

    Even wolfs can not kill all sheep at once, becouse in next step they could starve to death themselves.
    This is obvious rule in real live and the games too.
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2016
    Nowу and Nath33killer like this.
  6. Nowy

    Nowy Well-Known Member

    New units stats ideas

    New units stats should predict proper army order, formations, squad combats and weapons abilities.
    Similar units types and weapons needs similar stats, they should represent typical ratios.

    Improve units stats, recruitment times, damage power, fire ranges, stamina for similar units types.
    Units should lead and withstand little bit longer fire combats. Pikes are stronger than bayonets. Squad could get bonus. Cavalry require bigger chare and countercharge bonus, static cavalry usually lose combats.

    Recruitment times in the game should recreate historical ratios between different units types.
    Therefore different units types should get new recruitment times as fallows

    1 archer as like 4 saber armed units
    1 armoured swordsman as like 2 sabers
    1 pike as like 2 armoured swordsmen
    1 pike as like 1 musketeer in 17th c.
    1 pike as like 2 musketeers in 18th c.
    1 musketeer in 17th c. as like 2 musketeers in 18th c.
    1 Janissary, 1 Pandur, 1 Serdiuks, 1 Strelets shooters as like 2 musketeers in 17th c.
    1 grenadier and 1 light infantry chasseur, highlander similar as like 4 musketeers in 18th c.
    1 cuirassier, 1 dragoon similar as like 2 or 3 Cossacks, Mamelukes, Polish Raiders, Tatars

    These recruitment times allow create different units types with typical ratios for that periods.
    C3 game should somehow prevent peasant overpopulation. Crowds of peasant working at cereal plant, forests and stone pits looks horrible bad, limit military units and consume too much computer capacity.

    Therefore peasant recruitment time could be longer, but every peasant could gather 2 times more resources at once.

    Fire ranges

    It would be fine include 3 different damage zones for close/ medium/ max range.
    Zones could represent poor accuracy, for instance fire arms can hit 50%/ 25%/ 10% targets.

    the same ranges for all musket armed units, musketeers, dragoons and others 300/600/800
    fortification cannon round shot, tower 400/ 800/ 1400
    cannon canister shot 100/200/400, round shot 400/ 800/1600
    howitzer shell grenade 400/ 800/1200
    mortar bomb shot 800/1400/2500
    Smaller ship cannons 400/600/1200
    Bigger ship cannon 400/600/1400
    Ship mortar 800/1400/2000
    Siege 24 pounder heavy cannon round shot 800/1400/2500

    New units stats proposition

    Unit, costs F=food, W=wood, S=stone, X=iron, C=coal, G=gold, T=recruitment time, HP=stamina, weapon damage, armour

    Peasant, F 50, T 800, HP 80, knife 10
    Priest, F 50, G 100, T 800, HP 80, heal 5

    Drummer, F 50, T 150 HP 90
    Bagpiper, F 40, T 150, HP 150
    Officer, F 60, X 10, G 100, T 150, HP 150, sword 150

    Infantry 17th century
    Archer, F 40, W 2, T 200, HP 80, arrow 150, fire arrow 200
    Azap light infantry, F 40, T 100, HP 80, sabre 7
    Roundashir, F 40,X 10, T 150, HP 100, sword 7, armour, helmet and shield
    Pike, F 40, X 2, T 200, HP 90, pike 12,
    Armoured Pike, F 40, X 10, T 200, HP 100, pike 12, armour and helmet
    Musketeer, F 40, X 5, G 5, T 200, HP 90, musket shot 10,
    Armoured Musketeer, F 40, X 10, G 5, T 200, HP 100, musket shot 10, armour and helmet
    Specific infantry, Janissary, Pandur, Serdiuk, Strelets, F 60, X 10, G 5, T 400, HP 90, shot 12

    Infantry 18th century
    Pike, F 40, X 2, T200, HP 80, pike 12
    Musketeer, F 40, X 5, G 10, T 100, HP 90, musket shot 12, bayonet 10
    Chasseur, highlander, other light infantry, F 60, X 10, G 20, T 400, HP 100, musket shot 14
    Grenadier, F 60, X 10, G 20, T 400, HP 100, musket shot 12, bayonet 16

    New units proposition
    Supreme Commander, F 200, X 10, G 500, T 5000, HP 800, sabre 7
    Change Ukraine Hetman into General or Supreme Commander stats
    Generals and Admirals in four ranks,
    General 1 st rank or Commodore, F 200, x 10, G 100, T 1000, HP 500, sabre 7
    General 2nd rank or Vice Admiral, F 200, x 10, G 200, T 2000, HP 500, sabre 7
    General 3rd rank or Rear Admiral, F 200, x 10, G 300, T 3000, HP 500, sabre 7
    General 4th rank or Fleet Admiral, F 200, x 10, G 400, T 4000, HP 500, sabre 7
    Adjutant assignet to Generlas and Admirals, F150, X 10, G 50 T 1000, HP 250, sabre 7

    Reserve National Guard, Landwehr etc, F 40, X 5, T 200, HP 80, musket shot 10, bayonet 8
    Skirmisher, Jeger, Rifleman, Voltigeur, F 60, X 5, G 20, T 1000, HP 100, musket shot 16, bayonet 8
    Sapper, F 50, X 10, G 20, T 1000, HP 100, musket shot 10, bayonet 12, explosive powder keg 2000
    Ukraine Chern, F 40, W 10, T 100, HP 80, cold steel pole arms, short pike, axe, knife 7
    Rebel bandit, F 40, X 5, T 100, HP 80, fire arm shot 10, sabre 7
    Militia, F 40, X 5, T 100, HP 80, musket shot 10

    Cavalry 17th century
    Polish Winged Hussar, F 150, X 20, G 10, T 2500, HP 330, lance 18, armour, helmet
    Heavy cavalry Raider, F150, X 30, G 10, T 3000, HP 350, sword 12, full armor
    Russian Vityaz, F 150, X 20, G 10, T 3000, HP 330, sword 12, armour, helmet
    Dragon, F 150, X 10, G 10, T 3000, HP 300, musket shot 12, armour plate
    Light cavalry Croats, F 150, X 5, G 2, T 1000, HP 250, sabre 10
    Erase Ukraine Hetman this is crazy cavalry unit in the game, better make him as General Commander

    Irregular cavalry
    Bedouin, F 150, X 5, G, 2, T 1200, HP 250, shot 14
    Sich Cossack, F 150, X 5, G 2, T 1200, HP 250, sabre 10
    Don Cossack, F 150, W10, G 2, T 800, HP 250, lance 12
    Register Cossack, F 150, W 10, G 5, T 800, HP 300, lance 12
    Polish Raider, F 150, X 5, G 5, T 800, HP 300, saber 10
    Mameluke, F 150, X 5, G 5, T 800, HP 300, lance 12
    Spahis, F 150, X 5, G 5, T 800, HP 300, lance 12
    Tatar, F 100, W 10, T 800, HP 250, arrow 40, fire arrow 140

    Cavalry 18th century
    Heavy cavalry
    Cuirassier, F 150, X 20, G 5, T 3000, HP 350, sword 14, armour
    Dragon, F 150, X 10, G 5, T 3000, HP 280, musket shot 14
    French Dragon, F 150, X 10, G 5, T 2500, HP 300, musket shot 14, helmet
    Light cavalry
    Chasseur, F 150, X 5, G 5, T 1000, HP 250, sabre 10
    Hussar, F 150, X 5, G 5, T 1000, HP 250, sabre 12

    Mercenary
    Archer, G 20, T 50, HP 50, arrow 50, fire arrow 100
    Azap, G 10, T 50, HP 50, sabre 8
    Roundashir, G 15, T 50, HP 80, sword 8, armour, helmet and shield
    Grenadier, G 20, T 100, HP 100, musket shot 12, bayonet 16
    Sich Cossacks, G 60, T 100, HP 150, sabre 10
    Dragon, G 120, T 100, HP 250, musket shot 14

    Artillery
    Cannon, W 100, X 100, C 100, G 200, T 6000, HP 4000, round shot 1200, canister shot 600
    Howitzer, W 100, X 100, C 200, G 200, T 8000, HP 4000, shell grenade 2000
    Mortar, W 100, X 100, C 200, G 100, T 8000, HP 4000, bomb 2000
    Garrisoned tower cannon, S 200, X 100, C 100, G 100, T 5000, HP 20000, round shot 1200

    Erase multi barrel guns, they were cumbersome and very rarely used in battles

    New artillery guns proposition
    4 pounder light cannon, W 100, X 40, C 100, G 100, T 2000, HP 4000, round shot 400, canister shot 400
    6 pounder light cannon, W 100, X 60, C 100, G 120, T 3000, HP 4000, round shot 600, canister shot 400
    8 pounder cannon, W 100, X 80, C 120, G 150, T 4000, HP 4000, round shot 800, canister shot 500
    24 pounder siege heavy cannon, W 200, X 200, C 200, G 400, T 10000, HP 4000, round shot 2400

    New horse drawn wagons proposition
    Pack horse,F 100, T 300, HP 300, carry chosen resources 500
    Horse drawn ammunition caisson, F 200, W 200, T 1000, HP 300, carry iron 1000 and coal 1000
    Horse drawn engineer wagon, F 200, W 200, T 2000, HP 300, carry engineer tools and equipment
    Horse drawn supply wagon, F 200, W 200, T 1000, HP 300, carry food 1000 and gold 1000

    Ships
    Boat, W 300, T 2000, HP 300
    Ferry, W 600, F 100, G 200, T 2000, HP 50000, carry 80 units
    Yacht, W 600, F 100, C 100, G 200, T 2000, HP 20000, cannon 1000
    Galley, W 2000, F 1000, C 200, G 800, T 3000, HP 30000, cannon 1000, mortar 1000
    Frigate, W 4000, F 300, C 300, G 800, T 2000, HP 40000, cannon 1800
    Xebec, W 4000, F 200, C 200, G 800, T 2000, HP 40000, cannon 1200
    Galeass, W 8000, F 400, C, 400, G 1200, T 3000, HP 45000, cannon 2400
    Battleship, W 9000, F 600, C 600, G 3000, T 3000, HP 60000, cannon 2400, hull 200

    Ships 18th century
    Cutter, W 500, F 100, C 100, G 100, T 1000, HP 20000, cannon 1000
    Ketch, W 1000, F 200, C 400, G 400, T 2000, HP 40000, cannon 1000, mortar 2000
    Frigate, W 6000, F 300, C 300, G 600, T 2000, HP 50000, cannons 36 x 120, hull 200
    New ships proposition
    Merchant vessel, W 1000, F 100, G 100, T 2000, HP 20000, carry 3000 resources
    Transport sail ship, W 1000, F 100, G 100, T 2000, HP 30000, carry 240 units
    Sloop of war, W 800, F 100, C 100, G 200, T 2000, HP 30000, cannon 1200
    Ships of the line three classes
    Basic, 50 guns two decker, W 12000, X 5000, C 5000, G 10000, T 3000, HP 60000, cannons 50 x 32, hull 400
    Common, 74 guns two decker, W 20000, X 7400, C 7400, G 20000, T 3000, HP 60000, cannons 74 x 32, hull 400
    Large, 100 guns three decker, W 30000, X 10000, C 100000, G 30000, T 3000, HP 65000, cannons 100 x 32, hull 500

    No air balloon, this is insane unit in the game.

    EDIT: Improved some units stats e.g. ships and new artillery propositions
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2016
  7. Nowy

    Nowy Well-Known Member

    This would be very good add well organized armies in the game which could create proper order of battle.

    For instance

    Army size consisted of c.a. 1000 units in XVIII could looks as fallows

    General Staff units = 55
    Infantry units = 600
    Cavalry units = 280
    Special units = 24
    Artillery pieces = 26
    Train wagons = 22

    They could create squads as fallows

    Generla Commanders
    Supreme Commander = 1
    Escort cavalry squadron 1 x 15 = 15
    Generals in four ranks = 12
    Adjutants assigned to Generals = 27

    Infantry
    Officers and drummers for 12 squads x 2 = 24
    Sword or pike squads 4 x 72 = 288
    Musketeer squads 6 x 36 = 216
    Mercenary Infantry 2 x 36 = 72
    National Infantry 6 x 36 e.g. Janissary, Serdiuk, Pandur etc.
    Ukraine instead sword&pike squads could create armed peasant Chern squads 8 x 36 = 288

    Special units
    Sapper squads 2 x 12 = 24

    Cavalry
    Heavy cavalry squads 3 x 30 = 90
    Dragoon squads 3 x 30 = 90
    Irregular cavalry
    Mercenary cavalry 2 x 20 =40
    National cavalry 3 x 20 = 60 e.g. Cossacks, Mameluke, Polish Raider, Spahis, Tatar etc.
    Algeria, Turkey, Ukraine instead regular cavalry squads could create more irregular cavalry squads

    Artillery
    Light cannon squads 2 x 3 = 6 guns
    Cannon squads 2 x 3 = 6 guns
    Howitzer alone 4 x 1 = 4 guns
    Mortar squads 2 x 4 = 8 guns
    Siege 24 pdr cannon squad 1 x 2 = 2 guns

    Train (horse drawn wagons)
    Artillery caisson squads 4 x 2 = 8 wagons
    Supply wagon squads 5 x 2 = 10 wagons
    Engineer wagon squads 2 x 2 = 4 wagons

    Army size consisted of c.a. 2000 units in XVIII century could looks as fallows

    General staff units = 80
    Infantry units = 1440
    Cavalry units = 340
    Special units = 84
    Artillery pieces = 30
    Train wagons = 24

    They could create squads as fallows

    Generla Commanders
    Supreme Commander = 1
    Escort cavalry squadron 1 x 15 = 15
    Generals in four ranks = 22
    Adjutants assigned to Generals = 42

    Infantry
    Officers and drummers for 18 squads x 2 = 36
    Pike squads 4 x 72 = 288
    Musketeer squads 8 x 72 = 576
    Light Infantry squads 3 x 72 = 216 e.g. Chasseur, Highlander etc
    Grenadier squads 3 x 72 = 216
    Mercenary Grenadier squads 3 x 36 = 108

    Special units
    Sapper squads 2 x 12 = 24
    Skirmisher squads 5 x 12 = 60 e.g. Jeger, Rifleman, Voltigeur etc.

    Cavalry
    Heavy cavalry squads 3 x 30 = 90
    Dragoon squads 3 x 30 = 90
    Chasseur or Light Dragoon squads 2 x 30 = 60
    Hussar squads 2 x 30 = 60
    Mercenary cavalry 2 x 20 =40

    Artillery
    Light cannon squads 3 x 3 = 9 guns
    Cannon squads 2 x 3 = 6 guns
    Howitzer alone 5 x 1 = 5 guns
    Mortar squads 2 x 4 = 8 guns
    Siege 24 pdr cannon squad 1 x 2 = 2 guns

    Train (horse drawn wagons)
    Artillery caisson squads 5 x 2 = 10 wagons
    Supply wagon squads 5 x 2 = 10 wagons
    Engineer wagon squads 2 x 2 = 4 wagons

    Army could create Vanguard, Main force, Reserve and Rearguard squads groups with charakterisitc movement and deployment on battlefields as fallows.

    Vanguard consisted of few infantry, cavalry and artillery squads move the first, then create and hold army's left flank.
    Main force consisted of majority infantry, cavalry, artillery and train squads move next, they create main battle line.
    Reserve force reinforce main force, could stay behind or near main battle line.
    Rearguard consisted of few infantry, cavalry and artillery squads move the last, create and hold army's right flank.

    These are examples for typical army organization proposed to implement into C3 game, especially AI should recreate this order and units types ratios.
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2016
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  8. Dragon_Khan

    Dragon_Khan New Member

    Already sick of Turks light infantry rush...
     
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  9. Nowy

    Nowy Well-Known Member

    That's why I propose increase Azap training or recruitment time from 50 to 100. Maybe 120 would be better, but
    Azap units still are weak and could be stopped by less numerous, but much stonger pikes, musketeers and cavalry units.

    Azap units still can play mainly cannon fodder roles. :D
     
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  10. Nowy

    Nowy Well-Known Member

    I edited my messages presented above. Add few more ideas, propose new units, new costs, change little bit squads sizes, army order of battle etc. If you like more details you could find them in edited messages.
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2016
    Nowу likes this.
  11. Nowy

    Nowy Well-Known Member

    Some more ideas worthy to impelement into C 3 game.

    Shot frequency and fire ranges

    Muskets require longer reload time, worse shot frequency and similar fire ranges.

    17th c musketeer, reload 200, fire range min 300, max 800
    17th c Dutch musketeer, reload 180, min 300, max 800
    Ukraine Serdiuk, reload 200, min 300, max 800
    Russian Strelets, reload 200, min 300, max 800
    Turkey Janissary, reload 200, min 300, max 800
    Austrian Pandur reload 200, min 300, max 800
    Chasseur, reload 180, min 300, max 800
    Highlander reload 180, min 300, max 800
    17th c. Dragon, reload 240, min 300, max 800
    18th c. Dragon reload 220, min 300, max 800
    French Dragon reload 220, min 300, max 800
    Royal musketeer reload 240, min 300, max 800
    18th c musketeer, reload 200, min 300, max 800
    18th c. Prussian musketeer, reload 180, min 300, max 800
    Grenadier, reload 200, min 100, max 800
    Hand grenade, 100, min, 200, max 400
    Mercenary Grenadier, reload 180, min 100, max 800
    Mercenary hand grenade, 100, min, 200, max 400
    Archer, reload 200, min 300, max 800
    Mercenary. Archer reload 100, min 300, max 800
    Tatar reload 100, min 300, max 800

    Artillery
    Cannon round shot, reload 300, min 400, max 1.600
    Cannon canister shot, reload 300, min 0, max 400
    Howitzer sell shot, reload 300, min 400, max 1.200
    Mortar bomb, reload 400, min 400, max 2.500
    All tower cannons, reload 400, min 400, max 1.400

    Ships
    Yacht, reload 300, min 300, max 1.200
    Galley cannon reload 300, min 300, max 1.200
    Galley mortar reload 400, min 1.000, max 2.000
    Frigate, reload 100, min 400, max 1.400
    Xebec, reload 100, min 400, max 1.400
    Battleship, reload 100, min 400, max 1.400

    Shot power and upgrades

    17th c. all musketeers 10, after max upgrades 20
    18th c. Musketeer 12, after max upgrades 22
    Grenadier 12, after max upgrades 22
    Janissary, Pandur, Strelets, Serdiuk 14, after max upgrades 24
    18th light infantry, Chasseur, Highlander 14, after max upgrades 24
    17th c, Dragon 12, after max upgrades 22
    18th c. Dragon 14, after max upgrades 24
    18th c. French Dragon 14, 12, after max upgrades 24

    This way all muskets could inflict less casualties. This case somehow represent muskets poor accuracy, especially at long range. Musket armed units needed well organized fire drill and shot in volleys, because individual shots were not effective at that times. Then improved musket armed units stats could lead little bit better fire combats in the game.

    Mortar require much longer reload time and shorter fire range, but much stronger power shot.
    Then less mortars could do more realistic and better job in the game.

    Eliminate from the game all individual unit upgrades made in barracks and stables.
    These badly represent units skills and require too much players attention and too much control.
    There are much more interesting things to do in the game than push the buttons on individual units upgrades.
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2016
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  12. Kamilow

    Kamilow Well-Known Member

    - Increase the rate of recruitment of cavalry in stables
    - Increase the attack power of archers ( also Tatars in Turkey)
    - Reduce the strength of Ukrainian Hetman and health points of Russian Vityaz
    - Increasing statistics such units like: Prussian Hussar, French Dragon 18c. , Winged Hussar , Polish Light Rider
    - Bring back sound of Minarets from first Cossacks
     
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  13. Nowy

    Nowy Well-Known Member

    Hmm, I find that
    - old C1 cavalry rate of recruitment is acceptable, but it would be fine when you show your concrete propositions
    - I propose change Ukraine Hetman into General unit, this is ridiculus when Hetman could play common cavaly roles
    - I already changed health points for Russian Vitiaz to 330, this is less than full armored radier or cuirassier 350
    - Pussian Hussars do not need better stats, they are similar to other nations, at last Austrian Hungarian Hussar sat on Prussian trone at one time while Prussian Hussar never did such thing :D
    - I already improved French Dragon stats, they are smilar to standard Dragon, but got better rate of recruitment
    - Polish Winget Hussars in my proposition got very strong charge attack 22 ! Their charges with long lances could be dangerous, but they got 330 hp, they are stoppable by other heavy cavalry which got better 350 hp or numerous pikes and musketeers which got much better rate of recruitment
    - I guess Polish raider do not need better stats, Poland already get very strong famous Winged Hussar
    - I like old C1 minaret sound too
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2016
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  14. Nowy

    Nowy Well-Known Member

    Upgrades

    Upgrades in C3 game require lot of changes. It would be good make them sensible and better balanced.

    For instance.
    Eliminate all units individual upgrades from barracks and stables. These upgrades take too much player attention, require too much micro management and time to upgrade units. There are much more interesting things to do as like economy development, army organization, movement, deployment, and tactical maneuvers.

    Change upgrades in academy, blacksmith, mines, windmill, artillery depot and tower. These could better recreate main economy and warfare aspects in the game.

    Add eventually new upgrades for manufacturing and shipuilding. It would be fine include employment in blacksmith, craftsmen house, manufacture, artillery depot and shipyard.

    New upgrades propositions

    Academy
    New cereal crops increase gathered food from crop plant 20%
    Potato and vegetables increase gathered food from crop plant 10%
    Fiber crops and crop rotation increase gathered food from crop plant 10%
    Melioration and automatic sowing increase food production 100%
    Axe and sawmill machinery increase wood cutting 80%
    Shovel and better salary decrease building time 50%
    New constructions make buildings more resistant against cannon balls +50
    Make stronger walls and towers +60
    Show possible mines locations
    Wheel barrow increase stone pit capacity 50%
    New picks and better salary increase stone pit capacity 100%
    New fish nets increase fishing boat capacity 50%
    Modernized boat construction decrease costs 50%
    New sailing vessel design allow build frigate or Xebec
    New ship design allow build battleship or ship of the line
    New shipbuilding methods allow build ships faster 10 times
    New sails and rigging allow sailing vessels move faster 40%
    Gun powder barrel increase musket power shot 10%
    Sulfur chemistry increase musket power shot 10%
    Modern chemistry increase musket power shot 10%
    Chemistry increase artillery fire range 5%
    New barrels increase artillery fire range 10%
    Aiming instruments increase artillery accuracy 30%
    Ballistic methods increase artillery accuracy 30%
    New wheels and tails increase artillery guns durability 100%
    Multi barrel upgrade could be exchanged with new 4 pdr light cannons and 8 pdr cannons
    New much lock increase reload rate 10%
    New cartridges increase reload rate 10%
    New barrel increase musket power shot 10%
    New muskets increase musketeers rate of recruitment, two times
    New metallurgy strengthen armor +2
    New bayonet design increase bayonet attack +2
    New technology increase bayonet attack 10%
    Health care, cure all units
    Repair all artillery guns
    Air balloon could be optional upgrade

    Mines
    Each mine can employ 5 peasants at start.
    Three upgrades allow employ inside mine more workers +5 +8 +10
    Three upgrades available later allow employ inside mine more workers +12 +15 +25
    Nations which can not advance in 18th century technologies +5+8+10+12+15+25

    This would be fine when gold mines could get only three upgrades, there were not rich gold mines in Europe at that period. Add eventually craftsmen houses and manufactures which can earn more gold.

    Manufacturing
    Add eventually craftsmen houses and manufactures instead unrealistic gold mines.
    Four houses built around town hall could represent craftsmen houses with peasants working inside.
    Craftsmen house could employ 5 or 10 peasants, each one could earn gold as like miners can do.
    Manufacture could employ 30 or 60 peasants, each peasant could earn gold as like miners can do

    Barracks and stables
    Erase all individual attack and defense upgrades made in barracks and stables.
    These upgrades required too much micro management, better implement automated experience system based on kill ratio scored by squads or units.

    Blacksmith
    Require employ 5 peasants workers at start.
    New hand tools allow gather more food + 50%
    Increase buildings durability against cannon balls +20
    Horse shoe and new equipment allow create cavalry faster 4 times
    Modernized cold steel weapons, increase cavalry attack + 5
    Modernized armor +2
    Modernized bayonets +2

    Windmill
    Each crop plant create around windmill require 5 peasants at work
    Four crop plants create around one windmill could employ 20 peasants, this system prevent overcrowd.
    Four crop plants could represnt cereals, fibres, vegetables and fodder crops and crop rotation techniques.
    Modern windmill machinery increase food production 50%
    New storage system increase food production 50%

    Artillery Depot
    Require employ 5 peasants at start.
    Decrease artillery guns costs 7% for each level
    Decrease artillery guns production time 50% for each level

    Tower
    Each tower require 4 peasants for each cannon inside to represent artillerymen crews
    More cannons, decrease shot frequency 20% on level II-VI, and 30% on level VII.

    Town hall
    Banker inside allow take a loan 10,000 in gold, repaid later with 5% or 10% interests
    Advance into 18th c. techniques. Algeria, Hungary, Ukraine, Turkey can not exploit this upgrade.

    Shipyard
    Require employ 10 peasants at start.
    They could build only boats, ferries and small warships
    Next three upgrades allow employ more peasants +10+20+30
    These upgrades allow build bigger vessels e.g. merchant ships, frigates and ship of the line

    EDIT: Added town hall upgrades, included four crop plants ideas around windmill.
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2016
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  15. Nowy

    Nowy Well-Known Member

    New build order and buildings costs

    New build order and costs sensible present economy development and eliminate some crazy things.
    Town hall automatically build with four houses better represent town centre and offer more dwellings.

    Longer peasant rate of recruitment diminish dwellings demand. Peasants could gather two times more resources portions at once. This allow gather similar amount of resources by two times less peasants.

    Every next town hall built together with four houses require create next windmill with four crop plants.
    All this prevent build too many town halls too close to each other, allow build more crop plants, make less crowded peasants working in stone, wood and in mines.

    More housing places and dwellings allow build less town halls, but growing population require more food.
    More crop plants create around windmill could increase agriculture roles. Cereal, vegetable and fibre crops plants, and fallow land which later could cultivate fodder crops. More crop plants much better represent agriculture.

    More housing places and more food processing allow create and maintain bigger armies.
    All military buildings are build able after blacksmith, academy, manufacture and church. This is sensible order, because military units require iron goods, weapons, uniforms, equipments, military knowledge, commanders, drill and health care. This order somehow prevent early rushes and suicidal attacks delivered with small number of military units.

    Lowered food upgrades push to create more crop plants.
    Decreased stone upgrades diminish stone roles and strange stone trade.
    Increased stone walls costs make harder to build long stone walls across too big areas.
    Decreased mines employment diminish mining roles. Gold mines especially are not rich.
    Manufactures and craftsmen houses allow earn more gold.

    Less mining resources, decreased stone and wood upgrades prevent from crazy growth of buildings costs.
    Every next building could cost the same amount of resources for all nations.

    The same costs for each next building eliminate nonsense growing building costs and strange national diversity cases. Then nations are equally balanced, their diversity come from different national buildings design and characteristic units. Britain during Industrial Revolution in 18th century additionally could build next three industrial buildings, but require inventions, more ships, resources and overseas trade. This is enough to represent different national build order in the game.

    New build order and buildings costs proposition

    Function, building, T=build time, costs W= wood, S= stone, X= iron, G= gold, D= durability, H=dwellings

    1. Administration, town hall with four houses, T 500, W 900, S 900, D 10,000, H 400
    2. Agriculture, windmill with four crop plants, T 300, W 50, S 50, D 20,000
    3. Building materials, storehouse for resources, T 100, W 50, S 50, D 8,000
    4. Commerce, market with merchants, T 500, W 400, S 100, D 5,000
    5. Construction, blacksmith, T 300, W 100, S 100, X 600, D 5,000
    6. Development, academy, T 2000, W 1OOO, S 1200, D 50,000
    7. Dwellings, next houses, T 100, W 50, S 50, D 5,000, H 20
    8. Excavation, mines, T 300, W 100, S 100, D 3,000
    9. Manufacturing, manufacture, T 1000, W 1200, S 1200, G 500, D 10,000
    10. Men health care, church or masque, T 1000, W 1000, S 2000, G 300, D 8,000
    11. Military, infantry barrack, T 1000, W 1000, S 1000, D 20,000, H 200
    12. Military, cavalry stable, T 2500, W 3000, S 200, D 20,000
    13. Military, artillery depot, T 1000, W 300, S 1000, X 1000, D 30,000
    14. Services, mercenary diplomatic centre, T 1000, W 2000, S 2000, D 5,000
    15. Shipbuilding, shipyard and port, T 4000, W 2000, S 1000, X 500, D 60,000
    16. Fortifications, palling, tower, wall, gate
    - palling, T 10, W 10, D 1,000
    - tower, T 4000, W 100, S 200, G 100, D 20,000
    - wall , T 900, S 100, G 100, D 60,000
    17. New century infantry barrack, T 2000, W 1500, S 2000, G 500, D 40,000

    After British Industrial Revolution, Britain could build next buildings
    18. Fabrics, textile factory, T 3000, W 1000, S 2000, G 1000, D 20,000
    19. Metallurgy, iron works, T 3000, W 1000, S 2000, G 1000, D 20,000
    20. Steam power, steam engine, T 2000, S 200, X 500, G 500, D 5,000
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2016
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  16. Nowy

    Nowy Well-Known Member

    I find that two month after C3 game release many critical reviews and current sale results prove, this game require more changes, improvements and fixes.

    In many threads I created lot of ideas and detailed things what GSC could implement in this game to make this game more interesting for more today customers.

    New economy features, sensible build order, building costs, units stats, upgrades, army organisation, simplified squad sizes, formation shapes, typical order of battle and well organized combats are necessary.

    These is not hard and do not require lot of time. Simple math analysis prove that many things could be better balanced.

    I wonder why developers can not do it now?
     
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  17. Aistis1990

    Aistis1990 Active Member

    Well Prussian musketeers 18c. Have a good reloading time. 180 i think too much. 200 is ok for them.

    I LIKE the cossacks 1 setting. Fastest shooters : 17c. DUTCH musketeers , 18c Saxony Musketeers , 18c Saxony grenadiers , Ukrainian serdiuks. What I've found odd that in unit description says that Austrian Pandours are most effective shooting unit. But lol 85 Hp /58 shooting power , slow to make... and reloading speed does not feel lol. Let's wait for Saxony and Bavaria nations. Might their muskets rival ones od Denmark :)
     
  18. Nowy

    Nowy Well-Known Member

    C1 settings are wrong in many cases. These lead to horrible imbalance and crazy combats e.g. too fast reload, too accurate fire arms, and too powerful bayonets. I try improve these flaws with new units stats, costs and build order.
    Include historical facts and eliminate bad C1 unit stats which are inaccurate in that matter.

    Therefore
    Prussian 18th musketeer reload 180 is little bit faster, becouse Prussian drill allowed better train these musketeers.
    Prussian modernised their muskets, added iron ramrods and cut edges, these innovations allowed reaload faster too.
    Denamrk, Prusian, Saxon and Bavarian musketeers are not so powerful, they get common musketeers power shot.
    Ukrainian Serdiuks are not fast shooting machines, they get only slightly better power shot than 17th musketeers.
    Pandurs, Janissaries, Russian Strelets and Ukrainian Serdiuks get similar power shot, fire range and reload times.
    All musket armed line infantry units get similar power shot and fire range. Better skills get only light infantry units.
    Bayonets are not so powerful, Grenadiers and 18th musketeers can not kill cavalrymen so easy in cold steel combats.
    Cavalry, artillery and ships in my proposition also get improved stats, these make them more realistic and sensible.

    Similar types of units get similar stats. Diversity lay in different national units, army compostion and combat styles.
    This way my propositions erase known C1 big imbalance and crazy unit stats.
     
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  19. Aistis1990

    Aistis1990 Active Member

    Well I liked C1 alot :) The few things that were so much stupid... Sax Musketeer creation speed was too long , other common countries musketters /grenadiers make same dmg - weak muskets. And ofc most of units looks the same. I love what Baddog made with Cossacks. Devs should at least make skins , uniforms and stats for some units more unique. For example : Most countries have same musketeers , same grenadiers. LOL. Even Sweden army units doesn't look historically accurate. As well colors of uniforms. I think it's the lightning effects are to blame. But lol Prussian Musketeers with light blue almost Gay-like jackets. Highlanders with same color hats... Oh come on... I like that devs wishes to revive c1 to a better gaming experience. But ATM it looks like C1 was far more better than It's now. Colors , unit textures , less bugs. I really like this game I do but I like what I meant to be playing , but not what I'm actually playing. Now it feels like some beta released just to get funding to get this project going ...
     
  20. Nowy

    Nowy Well-Known Member

    Make all units adequate to historical figures are imposible in the game. There was too many differences in uniforms, armament and useabilty even in one country. I guess more unique uniforms and colours are implementable in mods. Nevertheless C 3 vanilla game should get improved unit stats which make better balanced and sensible game play.
    Therefore improved economy and warfare are main things worthy to change in this game.
    GSC can easy change stats mumbers and these require less work than all unique uniforms.

    That is stupid when Denmark, Prussian and Bavarian 18th musketeers, or Ukraine serdiuks get old, bad C1 stats.
    That is stupid when game economy relay on stone trade, while agriculture, manufacturing and overseas trade play only marginal roles now. There are not sensible economy devlopment, build order, army order of battle, proper squads sizes, formations shapes, unit stats, tactics and strategy in C3 game now.

    These things are inaccurate and horrible spoil the game balance, and make bore all game play.
    Therfore I propose make more changes in C3 game and write so many suggestions in this matter.
     
    Nowу likes this.
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