Cannon crews - yes or no?

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by Privateer, Jul 6, 2015.

?

Do you want cannon crews?

  1. Yes!

    79.2%
  2. No!

    15.8%
  3. Indifferent

    5.0%
  1. Falc09

    Falc09 Active Member

    Two possible ideas:

    1. Cannons are produced with 3 crew members that are attached to the cannon for always. Only one health bar for everything - including the crew members and the cannon itself - the health bar reaches zero: the crew dies and the cannon gets destroyed. Easy thing, just a visual feature. Cannons may get captured with their crew. (one unit)

    2. Cannons are built as cannons only and crew members are hired in the barracks and occupy any artillery unit. Crew could die, cannon needs new crew member(s) to be operated again. Gun destroyed, crew alive but worthless, may occupy a new cannon. Cannons can only be captured when the crew is dead or no crew assigned.

    Both models have their advantages but regarding the unpopular (sometimes) micro management I would prefer the first design.
     
  2. Field Marshall

    Field Marshall Active Member

    It is a must but can they pull it off before release?
    I think this would be a feature added after release. That's my greatest hope for this feature.
     
  3. kozak

    kozak New Member

    GSC guys must decide if they realease quality product or not. Whats the point with admiring beautiful smoke animations or fancy cannonballs mechanics when cannon itself is operated by ghosts? As history teaches, Cossacks gameplay is worth 4 millions copies, but If they want to compete with modern RTS, who knows, maybe details can make it or break it.
     
    Falc09 likes this.
  4. Field Marshall

    Field Marshall Active Member

    I cannot agree more, details are actually a huge thing nowdays. People in the RTS genre have a bunch of old games, they are looking for a true modern RTS and such small detail seems a bit old. That is why Starcraft2 right now rules the RTS genre, or the total war games with their amazing graphics and detail.
     
    Privateer likes this.
  5. Privateer

    Privateer Active Member

    Yep, just to echo this - this is my perspective too. I'm all for a rejuvenation of the original Cossacks, but it seems they are missing a massive trick here by not 'rectifying' a few issues such as this. This is even more disappointing when you consider that they are sticking a '3' to it as if to suggest a new game (something major game reviewers are not going to be impressed with!).

    There should be cannon crew - whether aesthetics-only or replaceable/functional crew.... they need something!

    I want to mods - I want to see lots of new units added and historically-accurate uniforms, but I'd rather not have to rely on a modder to tend to the Ghost Cannons (tm)!
     
  6. Field Marshall

    Field Marshall Active Member

    I agree.

    The thing that I am always saying about mods is only based on one thing. There are some developers that are able to create some amazing modding tools. What makes them amazing is how easy and powerful they are. If the tools for this game were the case then it would be possible to rely on modders. That way developers focus on making powerful tools for modding and the modders make the games they want. Unfortunately this rarely works out like this. Usually modding tools are difficult and the learning curve is long therefore developers need to put more of the content. However there are a few examples of tools that are good enough to let the community essentially build the game. Look at SecondLife or the OpenSim initiative. The tools were so simple and powerful that people were able to build their own cities, weapons, and almost everything they wanted. The developers only focused on the tools.
     
  7. Ogon

    Ogon Active Member

    Yes I would like to see canon crews just for the visual effect (again Davout made a fantastic job on his 17th c. canons with the crew repositioning the cannon after shooting.)

    However, I am against the option of capturing the cannons by the enemy and using it to shoot the original owners. Historically it almost never happened. Artillerymen were a highly skilled specialists and regular infantry or cavalrymen were not able to use cannons effectively. (It took 5 years for Napoleon Bonaparte to learn the art of artillery at the school at Brienne.) It required sophisticated math skills that allowed you to calculate the amount of powder and the and angle of the shot. So instead of reusing captured cannons, infantry and cavalrymen "spiked"them. They were carrying metal wedges and hammered them down in the touchholes of captured artillery pieces, making them inoperable. Re-use of captured cannons is a common mistake in both C1 and C2
     
  8. Nowy

    Nowy Well-Known Member

    I'm sorry but you are not right.
    There are lot of examples when captured cannons were re-used by enemy infantry or cavalry.
    There also were cannons manned by common people too.

    For instance read what Swedes cavalrymen did with captured cannons during Battle of Breitenfield 1631. Read who sometimes manned cannons in besieged towns.
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2015
  9. [RO]Proof

    [RO]Proof Active Member

    im indiferent if will keep options whit no artilery/towers/walls because i dont play whit artilery :p
     
    Daddio likes this.
  10. Nick

    Nick Active Member

    I think in my honest opinion it would look and seem weird having cannons without men in this day of age of gaming...
     
  11. Field Marshall

    Field Marshall Active Member

    Many people thought the same thing it looks silly but a quick fix or fast mod after release should do the trick.
     
  12. [IG]Hipolit

    [IG]Hipolit Active Member

    If we rely on mods than what would be a difference just to mod it in c1 not to c3 that was announced to be 95% of c1. For c1 you do not need to pay. Pity that servers for MP are down... So new graphics and working shell for MP are the only benefits? That is too few imho. Mods cannot be used to fix unacceptably bad decisions of producers.
     
    Nick, The_Hussar and Nowy like this.
  13. Field Marshall

    Field Marshall Active Member

    HUGE difference between modding a 2000 game and a 2015 game with brand new tools and a lightweight engine. You cannot imagine how big the difference is. Modding C1 is a pain. I am assuming you have never modded in your life if you don't see a difference. Mods are the only hope for fixing unacceptably bad decision of producers like followers being limited to 1 in Skyrim, or having to go through the entire beginning of the game every-time you started a new game in skyrim. You cannot imagine how painful it was to go through the same exact beginning and have to sit there watching the long opening and have to play the exact same thing. Mods fixed that. You cannot imagine how painful it was to encounter the bug where in one the missions you couldn't speak to the guy in the door and essentially you couldn't go on with the main quest of the game until you spoke to that guy. It was a game breaking bug. Mod's fixed it.

    Essentially if the team doesn't have the budget or time to pull off everything at release then good modding tools will do the trick. However, do not by any means think that I agree with not having cannon crew. If the devs could fix all those details I would be very pleased but its being a long time now since the discussion started and we keep getting screenshots of cannons without crews and the game is going to be release in Q4 so it seems that the chances of them changing that is nearly 0. I might be wrong.

    In order to read some of my comments sometimes you need to read the previous one because I said the thing about the mods after in a bunch of comments before I said that I could not believe that a 2015 game would not have crews. Essentially. I'm just suggesting solutions so that everything is not hopeless. I want you to understand that I agree a 100% with the devs adding cannon crews.
     
    condor_fly and Ogon like this.
  14. Ogon

    Ogon Active Member

    FM

    One good thing is that GSC team understands that the original C1 engine has been truly unique. It has been really so. They have probably learned the lesson that other games engines were not even comparable. After all there must have been a reason why C1 was played on GameSpy for over 10 years. So it seems they want to recreate the engine. I do hope they will add new features. Other will come from modders. What is really important is to win over hard core multiplayer crowd. That would decide the longevity of the game. C1 was able to do that, C2 did not.
     
  15. Masher

    Masher Active Member

    Mods are great for single player games like Skyrim, not so much for multiplayer games. Don't get me wrong, i am not saying that mods are not good for mp games, not at all. i mean if you have a clan and all of your clan mates are using the same mod it's fine. But say you want to join a public game and every one is running different mods, it's going to make finding compatible hosts a pain. Just like in ARMA2, so many servers had different mods running almost half would be incompatible with the default game and wouldn't let you join the server unless you downloaded the mods. There will be many good mods for Cossacks 3, but i hope at the very least the base game feels good enough so that the majority of people don't feel the need to mod the game to hell.

    I'm guessing most graphical mods should work regardless if the host has the mod or not? That's usually the case in past games i have played online.
     
  16. Field Marshall

    Field Marshall Active Member

    This is how it should work, and how it works in most games.

    I have a different point of view. While you see having the possibility of having many different mods a pain for the host or a hindrance for multiplayer, I see it as unique addition that allows people to share the mods they find with each other. Unfortunately what you said about hosting the game is true for some games. For others there was no problems in hosting the game because as soon as you joined the game, if you didn't have the mod the game would prompt you to download. Most Mods are very small in size so downloading them is not a problem unless you are playing a game-rework mod.
     
  17. Ogon

    Ogon Active Member

     
  18. Masher

    Masher Active Member

    I think if they have a some kind of prompt that pops up to download the mods(maybe from Steam workshop?) my worries would be for nothing as that would be very simple and easy. I am just worried we will see so many different mods being used that half the public games i try to join will not allow a connection as users will have different versions of games running since many mods will change core features and balance etc.
     
  19. kozak

    kozak New Member

    Marshall, I think you dont understand nuances of C1 game. Downloading mod is not problem. The problem is when small feature in MOD critically changes gameplay. Look at C1 - as far i remeber Imperia, OC even Baddog mod changed small things yet creating new gameplay on old engine. If we rely on modders in developing C3, than soon we will have 10 GOOD mods but with different aspects and MP community will be diverged before it strengthen. In this aspects I completely agree with Nowy. We need truly solid vanilla version without oldschool bloopers.
    The problem is that GSC anounced new game (they supposedly work on C3 2 years if Im correct), yet they stay silent. NO NEWS. NO INFO. They post screenshots with cannons showing great graphics but old ghost crew, a feature disliked by united voice of fans even on this forum.
    I dont want to sound negative, but its not look promising at this moment.
     
    The_Hussar, Loner and Nowy like this.
  20. Ogon

    Ogon Active Member

     
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