Update on OCMOD3 by Old Cossacks Clan

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by Ftoomsh, Jan 23, 2018.

  1. Ftoomsh

    Ftoomsh Well-Known Member

    Key Innovations of OCMOD3

    • TRADING - Market trading is overhauled, reverse trading loses resources and market prices are different from the standard game.

    • RESOURCES - The six resources are best gathered directly. Trading is for emergencies and to use up surpluses.

    • MINES - Mines are cheaper to upgrade and it is important to do mine upgrades to support the economy and army.
    - Mine Upgrades are limited to a cap of 45 miners per mine.
    - There is a new Captures Option which is "No Capturing Peasants Centers Mines".

    • MERCENARIES - Mercenaries are stronger but more expensive to hire and slower to produce.
    - Mercenary Grenadiers and Mercenary 18th C dragoons are only available in the 18th C.

    • INFANTRY FORMATIONS - Formations give large bonuses in attack and defense. Infantry out of formation are weaker.

    - Different formations move at different speeds and have different bonuses.
    a. The Line formation has medium speed and strong fighting bonus.
    b. The Column formation has high speed and medium fighting bonus.
    c. The Square formation has low speed (same as artillery movement speed) but a high stand ground bonus.

    • CAVALRY FORMATIONS - Formations give large bonuses in attack and small bonuses for defense. Cavalry out of formation are weaker.

    a. The "Rank" formation is a "refused" line like so "]" and has low speed to move with line infantry.
    b. The "Column" formation is a wedge and has fast speed and an attack bonus. It is best used for cold steel (melee) cavalry going on the attack.
    c. The "Square" formation is really a line that is best for cavalry shooters (dragoons).

    • CHURCHES – The church is more expensive and is built mainly to enable progress to the 18th C.

    • PROGRESS TO 18th C - It is more expensive to progress to the 18th C.

    - Even Ukraine, Scotland, Algeria and Turkey can progress to 18th C.
    - These above four nations get no new units in 18th C but some existing units can be produced faster.
    - To get this faster production for these four nations run the Academy upgrade for Building & Salary.

    • PRODUCTION RATES – 17th C Musketeers produce at the same rate as 17th C pikes. 18th C units produce faster.

    • STABLES- Stables production is more even across the nations, although a nation like Poland still excels in cavalry.

    • PRODUCTION SITES – A key change is that the 17th C barracks now produce 18th C muskets in the 18th Century.
    The 18th C barracks are for the production of 18th C pikes, grenadiers, sharpshooters (skirmishers), 18th C officers and drummers.

    • ARTILLERY - Artillery has a slower fire rate but has greater range and delivers more damage. It is also more expensive.

    • RELOAD RATES - It takes longer for musket units to reload and they cannot reload while moving.

    • SHOT-POWER - Most units now have between 15 to 50 base shot power.

    • HEAD-SHOTS - The head-shot (kill-shot) percentage is much higher and is affected by range.
    - The head-shot is now the main way muskets get kills as all units have much higher life points.
    - Range affects kill rates. Volleys at close range get more kills.

    • HOUSES - Houses now house more population. Housing takes up less space on the map.

    • WALLS AND TOWERS - There are limits on wooden walls, stone walls and towers.
    - The Tower limit is 8. Towers have longer cannon range and a very long sight range.
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2018
    Burak Damgacı likes this.
  2. Rhayn

    Rhayn Member

    I did a couple games with this mod and some tests in the Editor and I think that this mod needs to be reworked a bit
  3. Burak Damgacı

    Burak Damgacı Well-Known Member

    Hi Ftoomsh. All features are good. But can you tell me Turkey use balloon or not? You said Turkey would progress 18th century without no new units or key feature of the balloon? I think you should consider that university upgrade problem. Turkey needs 18th century equivalent units(musketeer or Albanian sharpshooter,fast cavalry) and balloon too. Now Turkey is very weak. Tatar and Janissary musketeer are useful. Maybe heavy spakh. But others are easily defeated by 18th century units. Sometimes Tatar and Janissary can't fight against 18th century hussars and musketeers too. Maybe Algeria needs balloon too. I liked your mod features. These are my humble suggestions. One more question, do you have a plan to add log cabin for defence? Good work friend.
  4. Ftoomsh

    Ftoomsh Well-Known Member

    Can you be more specific? Which issues or problems did you notice in particular?

    I know the mod is still a work in progress and I know which aspects of it still dissatisfy me. But it is always worthwhile to get an outside opinion.
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2018
  5. Ftoomsh

    Ftoomsh Well-Known Member

    Thank you for the reply. In OCMOD3 you will see we have basically tried to discourage the use of the balloon. Nations that have the balloon have to pay a huge price, to research it, 0f 20,500 gold. Nations that don't have it have good light infantry which have been given the maximum sight range and and can be used as excellent scouts. We want to encourage the use of scouting effort rather than just getting a balloon up and seeing the whole map. The fog of war makes late game attacks more challenging. You need to scout properly and even use screening cavalry before committing to major infantry movements. We play our games with No Balloon anyway.

    When Turkey, Algeria, Ukraine and Scotland research the 18th C they can then run the "Raise Pay" upgrade for 9050 gold. For these nations this upgrade decreases the time for building structures by 50% or half (as usual) but also decreases the build time of key troops by 50%. These nations do not get new troops but get a doubled production rate of key troops. The idea is to help these nations match the troops of true 18th C nations. It is true that Turkey, Algeria, Ukraine and Scotland will still lack high quality troops but they might be able to make up for it by sheer quantity.

    As always, we keep the nation balance under review. Currently, Turkey and Ukraine appear as if they actually might be too strong with 10 peace time and 5,000s resources. Scotland under the same conditions might be a bit weak. I think Algeria is about right but there are other opinions about Algeria too.

    The balance with zero peace time and 1,000s resources might be quite different. It is very hard to impossible to balance all nations for all peace times and conditions. But we keep trying to do that as much as we can.
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2018
    Burak Damgacı likes this.
  6. Burak Damgacı

    Burak Damgacı Well-Known Member

    Thanks for all replies. I didn't consider 0,10,20 PT games. By the way Yes you're right early games Turkey,Algeria,Scots is good. I'm always playing 45 PT games with random nations. Without capture,market,diplomatic centre and artillery. When the Turkey or Algeria come,I'm thinking about how can I play with this nation too. Because of lack of good units and I have to to deal with very good nations. For example overpower Swiss or Prussia or 18th century nations. This like 17th century vs 18th century games. Wood and stone problem is real too. The Turkey population gap is a real problem. The same problem is Ukraine, Scotland, Algeria too. Because they are consuming more woods and stone. Although they have enough mines or food. Your mod will be success I think. I liked scouts idea too. I changed my questions then Turkey will have a scout unit too. This scout normal units or special unit?
  7. Rhayn

    Rhayn Member

    I was generic on purpose because I want to gather more accurate opinions before writing a complete report on the mod. However I still wanted to give the hint that this good mod can become even better
  8. Ftoomsh

    Ftoomsh Well-Known Member

    In OCMOD3, the light infantry swordsmen of Algeria and Turkey have maximum sight range. Wood and stone does limit Algeria, Turkey and Ukraine but if it didn't they would be unstoppable in the mod. Get all your wood-gather and stone-gather upgrades and never stop making new town centers and new peasants (assuming you have population on unlimited) and put many on wood and stone. With these nations, after all troop upgrades, you can trade food and even gold for more wood and stone. You reach a point with these nations where making a gold stockpile will not help you, unless you have permitted the diplomatic center option and can hire mercenaries.
    Burak Damgacı likes this.
  9. Burak Damgacı

    Burak Damgacı Well-Known Member

    Thx for reply again. I used your tactics too Ftoomsh, But some 45 PT games , If the population limit was 5000. I couldn't reach this limit, Although I had more houses,barracks, town halls. That's why I have to ask this question. I'm always making wood and stone with food upgrades first. But the population gap is problematic. Do you have a plan to add log cabin? I liked your one change, 18th century dragoons or grenadiers not get used 17th century. That's simple rule. Well done friend.
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2018
  10. Ftoomsh

    Ftoomsh Well-Known Member

    I would like to add a log cabin. I will look into the possibilities. Of course, then I have to think about which nations get log cabins (some or all?) and how it affects the overall game balance including the strengths of offense and defense. I don't want to make defense too strong. Also, I don't like buildings which fire without a garrison. This would entail making the building garrisonable and having its fire power depend on the garrison inside (maybe up to to 12 muskets).

    I am not sure which population gap you are referring to. Just clarify that and maybe I can answer your question.
    Burak Damgacı likes this.
  11. Burak Damgacı

    Burak Damgacı Well-Known Member

    I explained the situation before friend. I couldn't reach the 5000 population limit.( All random 45 Pt game. I think that's a lottery:)) When I played with Turkey, Algeria,Ukraine) Although I had no market. I used nearly all peasants for wood,stone and food. I considered not to consume more wood and stone too.That's the real problem too. Other players reached the 5000 population limit, I had only 3500 or 4000. Anyway, I will find out in a sort of way. I think I need a chance to play with good nation:)) I offered log cabin, I liked American Conquest game type units, buildings. That game included interesting things like fortification,artillery crew, log cabin etc. One good feature from American Conquest is when the peasant came to the fortification, he goes out as a soldier too:)) The reality is very important to me:)) You're right. Strong defence very bad problem for people who like raiding too much. I've just asked the question to learn what will you do with this mod. I think Russia or Sweden can use this log cabin. I can add Denmark maybe Turkey.
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2018
  12. Rhayn

    Rhayn Member

    Could you kindly explain how "strong defense" can kill the game? I can't seem to understand what you mean
  13. Burak Damgacı

    Burak Damgacı Well-Known Member

    Please don't misunderstand me friend, I like defence Rhayn but some of the players(Maybe Old Cossacks players I don't know) thought that a strong defence could kill the game. I changed my sentence too:))This sentence includes not my opinion. Many of players didn't like American Conquest game type. Why? Because we could see log cabin(two type), fortification,fort etc. So we could see impenetrable defence lines and playing this game is harder than Cossacks series(except Napoleon Wars). Maybe raiding other players were limited by this defence line. That's why I said this sentence and support Ftoomsh sentence that he didn't want to make defence too strong. I want to see the fort,fortication or other earthwork types and more units like special ones pontonnier(who build pontoon bridge), pioneer etc. But I know we have no chance to see inside the Cossacks series. Maybe we must wait new American Conquest series. My aim is explaining my opinions and arouse developers to add good features this game... I said game still needs to develop why? 18th century ships and some good units ( Bedouin or Swiss harquebusier etc) and some good feature patrolling the territory from Old Cossacks series are still missing...
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2018
    Ftoomsh and Vidas like this.
  14. Vidas

    Vidas Member

    Also need Venetian ship galleass from first cossacks game. But most of all need 18 century ships. 18 century ship of the line - most powerful unit in cossacks game.

    Today from FAQ :) :

    5. Will Cossacks 3 feature 18th century naval units?
    Yes! They will come as a DLC in 2017.

    Burak Damgacı likes this.
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