C-3 fortifications

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by Nowy, Sep 2, 2016.

  1. Nowy

    Nowy Well-Known Member

    Fortifications and siege techniques in Cossacks style games needs lot of improvements.
    Strange wood pales, separate towers, long stone walls easy destroyable with archers fire arrows or grenadiers hand grenades looks foolish. I got some ideas for improvements in future add-ons, modes or DLC.

    Fortifications in the game could include more defensive structures as like blockhouse, tower, bastion, castle, fort, fortress, fleche, redoubt, scone trench, wall. Fixed fortifications and simple fieldworks are well come. They were commonly used and sieges were characteristic warfare at that period.

    It would be fine include few types of garrisoned fortifications e.g.

    Blockhouse = 12 infantrymen
    Tower = few crewmen needed for 1, 2, 3, cannons
    Bastion = 24 infantrymen and some artillerymen for 2, 3, 4 cannons
    Castle = 36 infantrymen and some artillerymen for 3, 4, 5 cannons
    Fort = 72 infantrymen, 15 cavalrymen and some artillerymen for 4, 5, 6 cannons
    Fortress = 240 infantrymen, 15 cavalrymen and some artillerymen for 8, 9, 10 cannons

    Four garrisoned fortifications require officer or General commanders.
    Bastion, Castle and Fort needs infantry officer, drummer and flag bearer
    Fortress needs 3 officers, 3 drummers, 3 flag bearers and 1 General with Adjutant

    Each garrisoned cannon needs 4 artillerymen crew inside fortification.
    Well supplied, garrisoned and reinforced fortifications could offer stronger defence.
    Fortification fire power depend on garrisoned units, number of cannons and ammunition. Garrisoned cannon without additional supply can fire only 10 shots, later fortification require supply delivered with horse drawn ammunition caissons and supply wagons.

    Garrison units could make sorties, capture or destroy enemy cannons, wagons and peasants.

    Fixed stone fortifications are not destroyable with archers fire arrows, grenadiers hand grenades and light artillery. Enemy garrisoned fortifications could be captured during siege. Besieging force could blockade enemy fortification and use siege techniques as fallows. Heavy artillery bombard defences, partly destroy fortifications and enemy garrison can suffer some losses. Meanwhile sappers or peasants dig scone trenches around fortifications, build fieldworks, virtual tunnel and lay mine under fortification’s wall. Explosion could make breach hole in the wall. Besiegers can offer honourable capitulation or storm enemy fortification through that breach and capture fortification. Then conqueror can repair defences and create own garrison.

    Well supplied strong garrison can withstand even long sieges and repel weaker attackers.
    During long sieges poorly supplied garrison as well as blockading forces placed around besieged fortification zone could suffer losses inflicted by starvation and diseases.
    Anderstein and Tchey like this.
  2. Nowy

    Nowy Well-Known Member

    Fortification roles in real world and the game.

    Fortifications in Europe were built to protect strategically important locations, mainly towns, sea ports, supply roads and some choke points. They defended only limited area until relief force could arrive and repel enemy.

    Fieldworks and fortified camps also were built to strengthen defence, and protect own forces in dangerous regions locate close to enemy.

    Garrisoned fortifications usually stored ammunition, food and other materials They serviced sometimes as advance supply base for own and allies armies, and reinforcements marching from main base.

    Fixed fortifications existed in AC and C2 games, but C1 game offered strange log cabins, separate towers, wood pales, stone walls and gates. These poorly represent fortification roles.

    Therefore some changes are necessary.

    Longer stone walls should cost more, this should disincline players to build them across the all map or around too big areas. Costly stone walls could protect only small, limited area around main towns and seaports. They can not defended too big areas, any megalopolis, all villages, cereal fields, forests, stone pits and mines.

    Garrisoned fortifications were not so big structures. Smaller in scale bastions, castles, forts and fortresses would be welcome in the game. These buildings would be locate on smaller areas. This could avoid problems with too big forts and fortresses known from AC and C2 games

    Garrisoned fortifications required periodic supply delivered on pack horses, horse drawn ammunition caissons and supply wagons. Lack of supply could inflict troubles, lower garrison defensive abilities, starvation, disease, abandon fortification and surrender to enemy.

    Such cases are doable in the game. They looks much better than C1 long camping behind long stone wall built across the map with infinite ammunition and food accessible from few windmills, forests, mines and stone pits covered behind this wall and numerous separate towers strangely placed here and there.

    It would be fine include simple field camps and fieldworks in the game too.

    Filed camp locate in defensive place could play field headquarter and field base roles.
    Filed camp store ammunition, food and gold in magazine, offer temporary dwellings in tents.
    Men can repair here weapons, equipment and vehicles, they also can take medical care and cure their wounds.
    Commanders and soldiers could take a rest, could gather loots, soldiers and prisoners there.

    Fieldworks could strengthen defence, but require time for preparation.
    Fleche offer protective cover for cannon and few infantrymen.
    Redoubt occupy slightly bigger area, offer cover for few cannons and infantrymen.
    Gabions and earth scone trench entranchments build around fortification or camp, offer some protection against artillery and musket fire.

    Defensive field camps were often used, especially by Polish, Russian and Turkish armies.

    Horse-drawn supply wagons in danger or close to enemy could create wagon fort.
    Such tactics was commonly in use especially in Ukraine Cossacks and Polish army.

    Around or close to camps were fought famous battles as like Khotin 1621, Smolensk 1633, Berestechko 1651, Vienna 1683, Zenta 1697, Stavuchany 1737.
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2016
    Mozzecanove and ney like this.
  3. Ioannis84

    Ioannis84 Member

    nice post
    ney likes this.
  4. Nowy

    Nowy Well-Known Member

    Thank you.

    I got more ideas how to improve fortifications in C3 fame. Old style fortifications known from C1 are very disappointing.

    I suggested GSC make more changes in the game, this way they could easily refresh game play, make it more sensible and interesting.

    New fortification system with buildable building fortifications are much better than old long stone wall, gates, palings and lonely towers insanely build here and there, even across the map or around big megalopolis.

    New fortification system is simple, such features exist in other games e.g. AC, C2, HEW.

    What is more new fortification buildings could add more dwellings, this way player could build less numerous houses and town halls. Then building order could get much better look and refresh the game play.
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2016
  5. Ioannis84

    Ioannis84 Member

    I am a afraid they will not do many changes they just want to get some money from cossacks hype

    if they wanted to add new thing thehy would propably released the game with morale and firing mechanics like cossacks 2 that were very interesting
    Nowy likes this.
  6. Penkover

    Penkover New Member

    I am really into forts and citadels. I really really would like to see more fortifications.
    Will the wall be able also to hold 1 infantrymen?
    The palisade is really poor, one gun shot or 5 archer shot could it eat for a launch. What about 5000 health ?
    The tower must stay out of walls or on a hill. Thats brutal, poor our tower .
    So or so its not a problem for few morrars. The tower should have range like a mortar but with very poor accuracy.
    Why the scenarious cities have nice stone ground . I want too stone ground.
    What about to make walls with 60° ( Π/3 rad) angle. Or 50, 40, 30, and so on.
  7. Aistis1990

    Aistis1990 Active Member

    Id love to see palisade with few improvements. Like you could build it and while it is built it could elevate ground a little bit from inner side. Which you could select while building it. So you could place your formations similar like being on a small hill. And palisade could also have something like standing bayonet pike system. if horses rushes like crazy they could get hurt. This is not something unreal and WOW WTF. But it's what is really possible to make with current mechanics :) .

    ATM on multiplayer if im defending Im usually place my army on a hill and build in palisade open network like a labyrinth so enemy couldnt raid your army with hussars like crazy. And many units gets stuck ^^
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