Dedly's Suggestion to improve Multiplayer

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by Dedly, Oct 24, 2017.

  1. Dedly

    Dedly New Member

    At start I would mention this everything is just my humble opinion.

    1. Market Economics: - In Multiplayer its all wrong, you don't have 6 resources, you have just 3... or 1?
    2. Sux Maps: - Maps are totally boring. No difference no strategic points (leak of game designers - auto-generated map)
    3. Balloon: - It's legal cheat, you just taking away basic of RTS what's scouting element.

    Why these are problems?
    1. Market Economics - In this game are 6 resources (ppl thinking about 7th LOL) and this end up like 3 res game, rest you just trade, in some case even only 1. Yes it is possible to win a game with gathering only food and you can make very good up and running economics for everything, then you can expand gathering to stone and wood. So for god's sake why are mines in this game? Most valuable resources pillars of this game and you don't need to gather them because is more effective to trade it.

    2. Sux Maps: - Maps does not have any strategic points what players could exploit or get advantage. Maps are totally same, I don't care about different positions of mines and hills. It's all just about plain 75% of MP Games - 100% Quick Match Games. That's why massive production of units works.

    3. Balloon: - It's nothing more to say about this, need to be gone

    Suggestions to solve problems:
    1. Market Economics: - Peasants should be limited by 30-50 per town hall or/also I would separate Iron and Coal so it can be bought only for Gold and you cant trade anything for Gold only way to get gold is Mine. There is no way that you could supply army with trade market, so either way you can afford army or they won't shoot. In the end war is expensive so you should have some reserves when you go into fight.

    2. Sux Maps: - If there would be fixed Market Economics you can start thinking about more interactive maps. Big recomendation here is to make maps by manual design so you can implement factors better then generator. Now you can't build huge army only from your base, but you need to reach for more resources. So in this point we can make very interesting strategy point to fight over what's mines and that's just start. On map could be more strategic points with smaller or higher priority. Map control should be rewarded.

    3. Ballon: - There is one option how to keep balloon and it's making it temporary for 45-60 sec.

    I will keep this updated with more suggestions, also thinking about getting into Mod, but I'm more interested in making own campaigns so will see.
  2. Daddio

    Daddio Moderator Staff Member

    Try OC MOD.

    Market has been severely moderated. You will not be able to win a game with out using your mines. Market will only makeup for minor short comings.

    99% of our games are played with no diplomatic center, or balloons.
  3. Dedly

    Dedly New Member

    Yeah I see you know what are you talking about -.-
    Market is serious problem since I can make you screen how I made it into 18th cent w/ decent upgrades and harvested everything around 15-20k and food 500k+ in 15min game.
    Aw I play 1% of games -.- ... srsly this is mostly Quick Match problems
  4. Daddio

    Daddio Moderator Staff Member

    Normal entry into 18th in OC MOD is about 30 - 40 minutes. So there is a lot of 17th cent play.

    With the flat market it is not possible to live off of one resource. Mines are critical, as is their defense.

    Normal games are played with 10pt.

    It is a very different style of game.
  5. Falc09

    Falc09 Active Member

    1. sorry but you are wrong: I suggest the following: go singleplayer random map and try all gathering rates for all resources with and w/o upgrades. Mines e.g. generate 100 gold, iron, ...coal per peasent and minute. Stone with both upgrades can gather XXXX per peasant and minute. Food: XXXX and so on. Now take exchange rates into account. Exchange rate at the beginning of the game (initial setting) and during the game, when all players do constantly buy gold. Finnaly calculate upgrade costs and opportunity costs. Upgrade costs in other words include armotization of mine upgrades. So upgrading Level III Gold mine costs XXXX gold and XXXX food (that is also eqivalent XXX gold as well), you can add 8 peasants that need X Minutes to harvest the upgrade costs. Same applies for all normal economic upgrades. Opportunity costs means: while e.g. 8 additional peasants produce gold in the mine, they also could gather stone instead which increases costs of upgrades additionally.

    After doing all calcutaltions, you will understand that just gathering food is by far not the best deal and you will propably loose any game to players that utilize economic possibilities better then you do. In fact you may not neglect all types of mines and even upgrade them to a certain level. Food should be replaced by **** after a certain point in the game.

    2. Maps are not auto generated (i know thats what devs say) but taken from a set of maps that are just rotating 90, 180 or 270 degrees. You will see exactly the same maps over and over again. :-(
    The problem with stratagic strong holds and mines in the middle of the map is: the one who has those mines first will win the game. The way it is at the moment you have absolutly equal situation for all players even through longer games. So less skilled players would stand no chance against better players that will always have more resources. Anyway I agree: it would be a nice addition and bring more variety to the game. So we do need that f*cking-full-map-editior!!!

    3. there is a no balloon setting, so you have the possibility to play how you like. If most people choose to host games with balloon upgrade, please don't blame the game. The game offers both options.
  6. Dedly

    Dedly New Member

    I checked OC MOD3 wasnt pleased what I saw :D, but it looks interesting, still not sure how its possible to play it? Coz I mostly try speak about Ladder Inbalance.
    I mention Multiplayer, where you can adjust settings, right that's OK. What about Ladder? ...
  7. Dedly

    Dedly New Member

    Still had not time, but soon Im gonna try to defeat many AI at Impossible, so I can make some examples what I actually mean about Mines and Resources. Maybe you just didnt see what I did, eg ppl with 3mines doing 5 18th cent raxx. I dont care that you can level up mines til 95 peasants is there, thats wrong... Players need to be forces going search trough map and find new mines, for the best fight for them. Instead there is mine what you can level up and it could be gone by one good ball from canon.
    Kamilow likes this.
  8. Daddio

    Daddio Moderator Staff Member

    This is true.

    We are currently looking into reducing the amount of local mines, and limiting upgrades in min the the first 3. then scattering other mines across map. Then mines can not be destroyed, but they can be captured. So if you take a mine then you must hold it.

    Then the game becomes a map control game instead of a raid, rush, or camp game.

  9. Dedly

    Dedly New Member

    Interesting idea, but I hope you are aware that this is just another multi-nation problem. Instead of only capture I would go for non-capturable and raised hp and price of mine. Then only option is to destroy mine, then build a new one for yourself. But still this don't necessary means that it will be about map control from now on. Problem is the map, exactly plain. Making this changes at map as Plain you will achieve nothing. So again I would go for reworking maps and situating these mines into attractive groups. For example somewhere in corner would be group of 5 mines at same place situated for fortification or good defending point, of course penetrable from at least 2 sides. Also could balance it with something else, like same place in the middle of map where leads main route to your enemy base. But still I would add more these points, like lake which you can bypass main route, another compilation of mines situated for late game mostly coal mines.

    Still talking about good defending points, because this is important, making decisions in the middle of game where you gonna move army, which point to take first so you get advantage of it.
    So this would absolutely prevent pointless raiding where people looking for capture mine, but instead of it you need to make right decisions to move army. This kind of map would not be tiny, but huge so main route has it point and its not so easy to rush your enemy.

    Just wondering about fact, that towers and fortification ain't so popular, why?
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