Discussion in 'Modding' started by Original-Cossacks-Player, Nov 23, 2016.

  1. Original-Cossacks-Player

    Original-Cossacks-Player Active Member

    Before commenting take note, this is the simplest draft, its rough as anything, this is not even close to a finished building, textures, lighting, size etc. will be completely different, it is simply to get an idea of cannon placements etc. so keep this is mind this is not even close the the finished one before anyone complains lol! I am after ideas on artillery!

    OK so what are peoples thoughts on armament placement, does field artillery or coastal cannon look better on top? And should a mortar be placed on each bastion corner? We can mod the game to have building launch mortar fire as its not fixed to just units but also buildings, it could be a larger size mortar round as well that doesn't fire as far as the normal mortar but similar to a howitzer shot. The bastion defenses will also fire musket shot like the block houses do, that way any units trying to get close will be cut down.


    Johny and General WVPM like this.
  2. A. Soldier

    A. Soldier Active Member

    The forts in American Conquest had coastal cannons so I think it's best to go with that.

    I don't see much sense in mortars on top since they're generally shorter ranged and if the fort also has musket fire close range explosives won't be needed as much.
  3. yquinox

    yquinox Member

    Shut up and take my money! :D

    It looks great. In my opinion there is no reason to place normal arti on walls - they have big wheels for trasport on greater distances. Coastal arti fit much better - it was stationary. Maybee if you want to add some howitzers on bastions, here is some inspiration:

    Coastall arti on Martello tower with aiming mechanism:

    Similar aiming mechanism:

    Standard coastal arti on some wall:
  4. Francesco_Cavalli

    Francesco_Cavalli Active Member

    The reason you wouldn't have normal cannons up there is that they'd fly off the wall behind them when fired - the kickback was huge (and beautifully animated in American Conquest)
  5. Falc09

    Falc09 Active Member

    Maybe don't take only muskets as garrison crew into consideration. Archers and stationary crossbows were sometimes common too.
    So maybe like two versions:

    - 17cent fort: sth. like an old castle: weak and more short range weapons: archers and howitzers, maybe use 3D model of poland 17cent barracks to start from

    - 18cent fort: sth. like a star fort: stronger and more long range weapons: muskets and cannons
  6. azo

    azo New Member

  7. [OC] Penwyn

    [OC] Penwyn New Member

    Very nice, and I will make it unanimous...the naval gun is the way to go.
  8. Nowy

    Nowy Well-Known Member

    No, cannon recoil or kickback was not the reason that field cannons were rarely present on walls. AC badly presented recoil case, you could check even in you tube how looks real field cannon shot. There are not so big recoil or kickback.
    Few ropes are enough to stop cannon recoil. Look at naval gun case, they did not fly, their recoil did not breake hulls.

    Real reason why field cannons were very rarely present on fortification walls was economy end efficiency.
    Field guns got big, expensive and easy to break wheels. These were hard to manouver in limited room on stone walls.
    Big wheels were necessary for field purporses. There was very big demand for big wheels for many, many field guns, wagons, carts and carriages.

    Smaller, cheaper wheels for heavy guns were easier to made and use in stationary manner on the walls. Small wheels allow easier manouver in limited room on stone walls. These wheels as smaller targets were less vunlerable on damage.
    These were real reasons why garrison artillery rarely used big wheels and often used small wheels for heavy guns on walls.

    Economy and efficency also were reasons why mortars and howitzers were rarely used on walls.
    These guns shot with high trajectory were predestined to shot at motionless or fixed targets. They get limited use ability. These guns also were troublesome to operate in limited room on walls during combats. Employ more cannons could made more efficient damage on various targets of besieging forces. Then more cannons with small wheels was better solution.
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2016
  9. Francesco_Cavalli

    Francesco_Cavalli Active Member

    Very interesting, and all true - though I disagree slightly with the recoil - on most videos on youtube they don't load the guns with shot - here's a video of fully loaded fieldguns from the 1860s:

  10. Nowy

    Nowy Well-Known Member

    I never said there was not recoil. You could notice that heavy cannons from 1860s were lighter, but stronger made, allow load slightly bigger charge. This gave slightly bigger recoil than heavier made guns from 17th and 18th centuries.

    Nevertheless these guns did not fly. Such recoil is stop able with few ropes on ships and could be stop able on walls.
    Therefore recoil was not a reason why filed guns were rarely present on stone walls.

    Big wheels were troublesome to manouver in limited room. Smaller, cheaper wheels got here better use ability.
    That was the point.
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2016
    Daddio likes this.
  11. Penkover

    Penkover New Member

    Is the mod still in develop or i just cannot found download link for it or you stopped developing. I really like the idea but still nowhere can find it.
  12. (OC)Fotheringill

    (OC)Fotheringill Active Member

    For the historians among us- When did the "star" shaped corner and mid wall defenses come into being. They were able to cover a much larger field of fire.
  13. Aistis1990

    Aistis1990 Active Member

    Yeah... and for that we have to thank Dutch :) . Veey smart ppl.
  14. A. Soldier

    A. Soldier Active Member

    I'm sorry for using Wikipedia as knowledge material but it says there that these "star forts" were first seen in Italy:

    I thought they were first made in France by Frenchmen, plus the most popular Star Forts are made in North America by Vauben, again, as far as I know.

    But of course I could be totally wrong, not arguing about that, just noting it.
  15. Aistis1990

    Aistis1990 Active Member

    Ah yeah sry. Dut h have perfected star forts thanks to Menno Van Coehoorn . It was invented in Itsly :)
  16. Original-Cossacks-Player

    Original-Cossacks-Player Active Member

    Yeh I will still do the fort hopefully, just waiting for some spare time and also GSC to let us in on the modding tools they promised, the same ones they used to develop the game....
  17. Aistis1990

    Aistis1990 Active Member

    Btw if we talk about cannons is it possible to enhance artillery? I mean cannons mechanics where cannonball might bounce the groud and fly through enemy lines killing even more soldiers similar like in bowling. And stuff?
  18. A. Soldier

    A. Soldier Active Member

    If you mean actual physics then we can't say for certain.
  19. Burak Damgacı

    Burak Damgacı Well-Known Member

    Aistis, I liked your idea. This like Mel Gibson's The Patriot film scene:))
  20. Original-Cossacks-Player

    Original-Cossacks-Player Active Member

    I refer you to American Conquest, cannon balls behaved like real-world cannon balls, often taking out a row of men, and then exploding behind enemy lines as the fuse went off. American Conquest 2 better be a thing so we can relive the realism it offered.
    Loner and A. Soldier like this.
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