I think the Cossacks 2 has two big advantages than C 1. I like the squads moral and the different squad formation bonus. These were really good tactical factors. I hope these will be in C 3 too.
Exactly, morale is main factor in war games. That's why smaller armies with better morale and better trained squads won the battles. So, they should include squads morale, fatigue and formation bonus in the game.
I found the fatigue ridiculous... when the formations walked over grass they got tired too quickly in cossacks 2. And think back for a moment of the morale system in american conquest!!! It was terribly exaggerated... sometimes it is necessary to sacrifise troops for the greater good and thats not possible if they keep running away all the time.
Morale and fatigue system like C2 was very good. You always could switch on/off this option Then morale would play less important role. Nevertheless moral and fatigue are main factors in war games. C 3 should include these factors. Your soldiers can not run across all map and never get tired as it was in C1. In C2 they can march very long only on raods, but in hard terrain they quickly get tired. That's real life. Try walk with heavy musket in your hand in the streets or in mountainous region. These are quite different cases. Shocked soldiers can running from broken squads. That's also realistic. Much more realistic than total slaughter to the last man. Human do not like die, he usually try keep away from dangerous places. Battles are very dangerous cases. That's why soldiers morale and fatigue played main roles to keep men in orders.
I can understand both of your opinions. But let's agree that we disagree! As a player, who has played in countless tournaments and LCN, let me tell you that the outcome of a game should be decided by the skills of the player rather than the game mechanics. There should be no moral factor at all neither a fatigue. I don't think you guys are aware of the facts in game as the defender would always be in the tactical advantage, when the attacker loses freshness by walking towards him and his troops scatter when face a majority of units. The less such factors have an impact on the game the more the skills of the human player decide the outcome of the war!
Skills of human player can predict game mechanics, isn't it. So, skilled player can play also with morale and fatigue. It require even more skills from human player. Outcome of the war allways require keep an eye on soldiers morale, fatigue and skills. That's why even smller armies can won the wars. Fast klicking is borring. Soldiers in gigantic blobs or LCN rules are borring too. That's why there were not many players.
There is a contradiction. How should the smaller army win the bigger one if they scatter for facing a bigger army ? Remember american conquest ? You had to have a bigger army always or they just scattered... Only without a morale system the smaller army could defeat a bigger army with the proper strategy! I understand your concerns for having it more realistic, but it jsut doesn't work in game!
"Fast clicking" is essential. Speed and control also defines who is better. One of Napoleon's biggest advantage over his rivals was that he was faster than them. Moreover, LCN had many players in its peak-times.
WTF is with that e-sports stuff? These morale and fatigue systems are a necessity, as to properly represent the battles of the time. Big blobs of troops is just boring, repetitive nonsense
Seriously though why do you want all this oversimplified, competitive tripe? The focus should be on tactical skill and troop management, not who can make more troops faster! Don't try to force this blobbing nonsense on everyone, It requires no tactics, no strategy, and almost no thought at all. It's NOT fun!
You are not right. Fast clicking or speed is not essencial. Time, place and some other conditions are more important. Napoleon and his Grande Arme marched very fast to Moscow. However he lost more soldiers on the road than in all battles, because they marched with great speed in hot summer. Later winter reatreat dropped French morale to the ground and war was lost. Great speed did not help Napoloen to won that war. Smaller Russian army won that war. Napoleon was finished. Morale, fatigue and weather conditions decided in that war. Speed was almost useless.
its not blobbing nonsense. Its based on the experience i made in 13 years of playing cossacks bsck to war on a high and competetive level. Also in cossacks 2 i played a major role. If this morale and fatigue thing was so awesome, then how do u explain nobody liked cossacks 2 ? Multiplayer ceased to excist already after 1 year, whereas cossacks back to war is still played until today. You should not call the opinion of a player who put much more time into this game than anyone else ''blobbing nonsense''!
Because anyone can create a big heap of soldiers and yell 'Charge'! Sure Cossacks 1 still has an active multiplayer base so clearly this sort of gameplay has appeal, but it does a poor job of representing 17th and 18th century warfare. These systems would add so much more in terms of tactical options, as well as promoting more thoughtful playstyles. I played Cossacks 2 first and adored it and in comparison the original was just too simplistic for me. Without any factors other than numerical strength and ammo to consider it just seemed like there was no reason to engage in more complex tactics.
I adore C2 more than C1 too. It is much more interesting to me. C1 was borring, however it had more options than C2. C1 was clear blobbing nonsene, horrible balanced and poorly historically accurate. Fast clickers wich likes mass killings can enjoy such case. C1 game of course had some interesting things and simplifications. Neverthelsss new RTS game should include morale, fatigue and few other things which make the game more realistic. These things worked well in C2 and could work well in much modern C3.
My two cents about moral an fatigue system in cossacks if they implement it Give higher stamina to every soldier and add the option "forced march", if the soldier march for long distance on flat land they should be able to go far before being tired. The fatigue will give a blow to the soldiers moral but not deplete it completely in 10 second like in cossacks 2, and after slowly keep falling for another time. To illustrate it, imagine you have a moral of 100 then you made your soldier exhausted it fall to 80 and after it will keep falling at the pace of 1 every 5 second if you keep going until they just have 60 of moral left. Another thing the fatigue could do would be to make the soldiers less efficient, like -2 to attack and -2 to defence in hand-to-hand or reload a bit slower. For the cavalry I think making them slower would be a better option. Maybe the drummer could play a role in this, like making them faster, giving the forced march ability, regenerating the stamina faster or giving them higher stamina The basic moral should be higher too, in cossacks 2 you could rout an unit in one volley and even veteran with two volley. Make some unit with a really high moral, really hard to rout and some units that doesn't need to be in a formation to be able to fight (I'm thinking in particular of irregular troops) In this I think an officer should give higher moral while a standard bearer would make the troop more resistant to the shock from sustaining losses, their presence in a troop should give them the ability to regain more easily their moral. Also if we have a moral system, experience for the soldier is a must ! I don't really know the mods that were made for cossacks (apart from mod1), did some have successful implementation of moral and fatigue ?
Moral system in C2 was fine to me. However I can accept some changes with higher stamina. Fatigue also could be lowered, then soldiers could march and fight little bit longer. Nevertheless all men needs some rest time to time. Maybe military camps idea and supply wagon trains could help increase morale and allow take a reast for fatigued soldiers. Then moral and fatigue systems could looks fine in C 3 game.
