Moral system like Cossacks 2

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by Pales, May 21, 2015.

  1. CyberInsaneo

    CyberInsaneo Member

    Yeah gotta admit, even though i vastly prefer C2's morale/fatigue system the soldiers got tired too quickly.
     
  2. [RO]Proof

    [RO]Proof Active Member

    This is supose to be like Cossacks 1, why want morale, experience and other major change? Many pro multiplayer C1 players are not agree whit C2 implemantation and this game wil be take for multiplayer .Maybe add some spell and hereos for all nations ?
    , im joke .Amazing realistic graphics, new maps and fix bugs from C1 wil be more then enough :) ,this is my opinion
     
  3. CyberInsaneo

    CyberInsaneo Member

    Not everyone is here for competitive multiplayer. I don't see why the mechanics should be dumbed down for everyone because some people like to have tournaments.
     
  4. [RO]Proof

    [RO]Proof Active Member

    and i dont see too why change so much for players who play 2-3 skirmish and 1 time campaign and keep disk forget , most we play for 10-12 years everyday on multiplayer...
     
  5. Cossack

    Cossack Administrator Staff Member

    Hi,

    Cossacks 3 won't have morale system at start. That was our decision and it wasn't easy. We understand that there are lot of fans of this game mechanics, but there are also lot of dissatisfied of such system for classic RTS.
    But, to solve such problem, we focus on powerful modmaking tools and modders support, so they could add their own game mechanics, such as fatigue and morale system, as easy-to-install mods.
    Best mods will get official status and we would help modders to make mods at high quality level.

    This decision allows us to give good gameplay for both sides of players.
     
  6. [KGR]CATWEAZEL

    [KGR]CATWEAZEL Moderator Staff Member

    Excellent! Thank you.
     
  7. Nowy

    Nowy Well-Known Member

    I'm sorry, but you make favour only for one side, some laud multiplayer fanatics while for other customers you propose make the game yourselves. This is unfortunate decision.

    C2 already has fine morale, fatigue and experience system. GSC team could implement that system in C3 game and add button with on/off option. Then some multiplayer fanatics could play their arcade tournaments and players which want more reality in the game will playe with theri option. Then you can say that you satisfy both sides.
     
  8. Cossack

    Cossack Administrator Staff Member

    You can apply official mods, made or supported by devs. In this case you can be sure that they are high quality. Lot of players, want to have gameplay like in C1, lot of players want more deep tactic like in C2. But it is imposible to implement both models in one game, or in 1 option. This games are different too much. It's not just arcade option.

    There is nothing bad in modifications. Counter-Strike was just a mod for Half-Life, and Dota was just a mod for Warcraft 3. And players don't claim Valve or Blizzard that they can't make such great mods by themselves. We hope/wish that Cossacks would have mods, that can be made as stand-alone game in some time. And we will do our best to help/support modders.
     
  9. CyberInsaneo

    CyberInsaneo Member

    While I do appreciate the openness and clarity, I am a bit disappointed. Although to be fair C1 and C2 were very different games so just having a simple on/off switch probable wouldn't be very practical. That said there is most defiantly a market for the more deep and realistic gameplay presented in Cossacks 2, And I hope that GSC considers that in any future titles. I'm still going to get this game mostly because of how we have been starved of traditional RTS for years now, and I wish to support any developers willing to make more of these games.
     
  10. [KGR]Hitman

    [KGR]Hitman New Member

    It must just be not to forget, that the shell is developed like that, that Mods dont Crash it. Also It must be easy to implement Mods.
     
    [KGR]CATWEAZEL likes this.
  11. Nowy

    Nowy Well-Known Member

    I appreciate that you plan support modders. It is very good, but that was not a question there.

    Question was, why GSC team can not include morale, fatigue, experiense system in C3 game?
    C2 already has on/off arcade option. Why you can not implement such option in C3 game?

    I'm afraid that I know the answer. It is because GSC decided on old bad combat system where individual soldiers do not need create squad formations to win the battle. Then players probably will use blobbing mobs marching accross the map without fatigue. They will stupidly fight on the way to enemy base, even to the last man. They will never waver, panic or runaway. They will work as like robot clones, but not as like human. This sounds as like old stupidity again.

    You of course propose, lets customers do the mods themselves in that matter, but it is not fair, even with your support.

    You do not propose for fast mass killings fanantics, lets they do the mod which disable morale, fatigue or experience.
    That would be fair for both sides.

    Nothing is bad in morale, fatigue and experisence systems. There is a question, how it could work in the game.
    When units lost their morale or when they get tired. It is not hard predict proper conditions in these matters.
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2015
  12. [RO]Proof

    [RO]Proof Active Member

    I have some questions :: How many copy Cossacks Back To War sold and how many Cossacks II , how many Cossacks 1 still play multiplayer and how many Cossacks II ?
    If is so good Cossacks II why is not played multiplayer anymore and why Cossacks 1 is till played and multiplayer fans strugle and create a new server for mutiplayer when GS shut down?
    Why Cossacks 1( Cossacks antology) is still buy for stability in multiplayer ( me and many we have buy Cossacks 1 for 2 times, 1 first release and second new release from GOG for stabilty in w7/8) and cossacks II no one buy it anymore?

    Cossacks 3 need to sell well ,to developers get pay for they hard work and if players prefere Cossacks 1 gameplay wil take care about they opinion
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2015
    [KGR]CATWEAZEL likes this.
  13. Foeurdr

    Foeurdr Moderator Staff Member

    Multiplayer isn't the only playable mode on cossacks as far I know and I think people who prefer cossacks 2 play more on singleplayer and so are less apparent.
    Cossacks 2 is still sell and you can see in this forum many people who prefer this game and have certainly bought it again they may be less than Cossacks 1 player but you can't say :
    But I think you are right in saying that cossacks 1 sell better and has a larger player base, so it's no wonder that cossacks 3 is based in the first and not the second.
     
    [KGR]CATWEAZEL likes this.
  14. [WW]Prototype

    [WW]Prototype Active Member

    Cossacks 2 Moral system = borring.
     
    [KGR]CATWEAZEL likes this.
  15. Nowy

    Nowy Well-Known Member

    They sold more C I copies, becusue it was fine game with large amount of units, simple maps, simple buildings, simple game pace, large battles and the game was slod in longer time. That was interesting RTS game at that period.
    C I had more options and allow play with 7 players. Many kids and clan boys likes such features.

    CII they sold good, but this game was far, far from customers expectations, especially these which know something about Napoleonic Wars. New game features did not help them too much. People were disapointed that this game had old mistakes known from C I game. There still were old bad things as like stacking formations, poor nations and units balance, poor units representation, and not so realistic warfare. There were only few maps, stupid or nonsens campaings. C II game offer short gameplay only for 2 or 4 players.

    Then who want to play next game which looks like half finished product with pure fantasy?
    CII game offered mainly graphic improvements, some new things, but people expected impresive warfare.
    Fantasy nonsense they could continued in C I game. What for buy and play new game with new graphic?

    Do not forget that multiplayer scene was not core game mode for Cossacks games. There were many multiplayer fans.
    However GSC sold few million copies Cossacks games, while mulitplayer secene visited only several thousands players.
    Then their real customers were out of multiplayer.

    I agee in one point, C3 should sell well. However only nostalgia syndrome is not enough to sell well the game.

    It would be good take care about all customers, avoid old mistakes from the past and look forward.

    I wish GSC good luck with C3 game, however I am affraid that they still could do their odl mistakes.
     
  16. Nowy

    Nowy Well-Known Member

    That is untrue statement.

    Moral system is core thing in realistic warfare.
    If you like nonsense fast combats from C I you could still continue them it that game.
    What for people shouldl buy and play the same stupidity style in modrn game?
     
  17. Foeurdr

    Foeurdr Moderator Staff Member

    Each person its own bad tastes ! I liked the morale system of cossacks 2 even if it had many big flaws, that make one for me. :p
    Since the game will be easily moddable, I'm sure we will soon have a mod giving us a good morale system.

    To the developper, when you say "easy to install" does that mean that even with next to nothing knowledge in coding we could do it or that the installation of future mod will be easy ?

    ps : Nowy there is an edit button
     
  18. Daddio

    Daddio Moderator Staff Member

    Look when C1 first came out it was terribly exciting. I was hooked from the first time I started it up. It was different than anything else I had ever seen. It was not until a couple of years later that I realized that you could play it online! Then it just blew my mind. I found myself playing for hours, even 10 - 12 hours a day on weekends. Always looking for the next installment, always pre-ordering the next game. Couple of times ordering from a British site, and having the only English version in the USA!

    But when C2 came out a lot of players had a hard time with the conversion. Now it was not all about the mad build and mass attack with the game being over after one or two battles. Now you had to solidify your resources, fight battle after battle, and actually maneuver and counter maneuver your troops to try and gain an advantage. A lot of people just did not want to learn something new, they were comfortable with the way things were. Add a lack of support, and a bug list that did not receive any attention and the game was just not as popular.

    I think the game was way ahead of its time, The C2 was better than the graphics, and PC's out at the time.

    While I am very excited to see a remake of C1, and will pre-order as soon as it is possible. (do not forget that you have some followers in the USA) Please do not forget that this game is all there is for us that love warfare from this era, and you are our only source for that last several years.

    Good gaming all,

    Daddio
     
    Foeurdr and [KGR]CATWEAZEL like this.
  19. Teppich

    Teppich New Member

    Repeating yourself doesn't make it more true.
    Have you watched a random millions game on youtube or where have you got those strange ideas from?
     
    [RO]Proof and [KGR]CATWEAZEL like this.
  20. [RO]Proof

    [RO]Proof Active Member

    Go and see Jason doyle uploads on youtube , milions multiplayer :
    and see if is no regards to placement,menuvering etc ...
     
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